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Oathbringer by Brandon Sanderson: Chapters 22-24

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Oathbringer by Brandon Sanderson: Chapters 22-24

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Oathbringer by Brandon Sanderson: Chapters 22-24

Book 3 in the Stormlight Archive. Humanity faces a new Desolation with the return of the Voidbringers, a foe with numbers as great as their thirst for vengeance.

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Published on October 17, 2017

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Oathbringer by Brandon Sanderson

Start reading Oathbringer, the new volume of Brandon Sanderson’s Stormlight Archive epic, right now. For free!

Tor.com is serializing the much-awaited third volume in the Stormlight Archive series every Tuesday until the novel’s November 14, 2017 release date.

Every installment is collected here in the Oathbringer index.

Need a refresher on the Stormlight Archive before beginning Oathbringer? Here’s a summary of what happened in Book 1: The Way of Kings and Book 2: Words of Radiance.

Spoiler warning: Comments will contain spoilers for previous Stormlight books, other works that take place in Sanderson’s cosmere (Elantris, Mistborn, Warbreaker, etc.), and the available chapters of Oathbringer, along with speculation regarding the chapters yet to come.

 

Chapter 22
The Darkness Within

I am no philosopher, to intrigue you with piercing questions.

—From Oathbringer, preface

 

Mraize. His face was crisscrossed by scars, one of which deformed his upper lip. Instead of his usual fashionable clothing, today he wore a Sadeas uniform, with a breastplate and a simple skullcap helm. He looked exactly like the other soldiers they’d passed, save for that face.

And the chicken on his shoulder.

A chicken. It was one of the stranger varieties, pure green and sleek, with a wicked beak. It looked much more like a predator than the bumbling things she’d seen sold in cages at markets.

But seriously. Who walked around with a pet chicken? They were for eating, right?

Adolin noted the chicken and raised an eyebrow, but Mraize didn’t give any sign that he knew Shallan. He slouched like the other soldiers, holding a halberd and glaring at Adolin.

Ialai hadn’t set out chairs for them. She sat with her hands in her lap, sleeved safehand beneath her freehand, lit by lamps on pedestals at either side of the room. She looked particularly vengeful by that unnatural flickering light.

“Did you know,” Ialai said, “that after whitespines make a kill, they will eat, then hide near the carcass?”

“It’s one of the dangers in hunting them, Brightness,” Adolin said. “You assume that you’re on the beast’s trail, but it might be lurking nearby.”

“I used to wonder at this behavior until I realized the kill will attract scavengers, and the whitespine is not picky. The ones that come to feast on its leavings become another meal themselves.”

The implication of the conversation seemed clear to Shallan. Why have you returned to the scene of the kill, Kholin?

“We want you to know, Brightness,” Adolin said, “that we take the murder of a highprince very seriously. We are doing everything we can to prevent this from happening again.”

Oh, Adolin…

“Of course you are,” Ialai said. “The other highprinces are now too afraid to stand up to you.”

Yes, he’d walked right into that one. But Shallan didn’t take over; this was Adolin’s task, and he’d invited her for support, not to speak for him. Honestly, she wouldn’t be doing much better. She’d just be making diff rent mistakes.

“Can you tell us of anyone who might have had the opportunity and motive for killing your husband?” Adolin said. “Other than my father, Brightness.”

“So even you admit that—”

“It’s strange,” Adolin snapped. “My mother always said she thought you were clever. She admired you, and wished she had your wit. Yet here, I see no proof of that. Honestly, do you really think that my father would withstand Sadeas’s insults for years—weather his betrayal on the Plains, suffer that dueling fiasco—only to assassinate him now? Once Sadeas was proven wrong about the Voidbringers, and my father’s position is secure? We both know my father wasn’t behind your husband’s death. To claim otherwise is simple idiocy.”

Shallan started. She hadn’t expected that from Adolin’s lips. Strikingly, it seemed to her to be the precise thing he’d needed to say. Cut away the courtly language. Deliver the straight and earnest truth.

Ialai leaned forward, inspecting Adolin and chewing on his words. If there was one thing Adolin could convey, it was authenticity.

“Fetch him a chair,” Ialai said to Mraize.

“Yes, Brightness,” he said, his voice thick with a rural accent that bordered on Herdazian.

Ialai then looked to Shallan. “And you. Make yourself useful. There are teas warming in the side room.”

Shallan sniffed at the treatment. She was no longer some inconsequential ward, to be ordered about. However, Mraize lurched off in the same direction she’d been told to go, so Shallan bore the indignity and stalked after him.

The next room was much smaller, cut out of the same stone as the others, but with a muted pattern of strata. Oranges and reds that blended together so evenly you could almost pretend the wall was all one hue. Ialai’s people had been using it for storage, as evidenced by the chairs in one corner. Shallan ignored the warm jugs of tea heating on fabrials on the counter and stepped close to Mraize.

“What are you doing here?” she hissed at him.

His chicken chirped softly, as if in agitation.

“I’m keeping an eye on that one,” he said, nodding toward the other room. Here, his voice became refined, losing the rural edge. “We have interest in her.”

“So she’s not one of you?” Shallan asked. “She’s not a… Ghostblood?”

“No,” he said, eyes narrowing. “She and her husband were too wild a variable for us to invite. Their motives are their own; I don’t think they align to those of anyone else, human or listener.”

“The fact that they’re crem didn’t enter into it, I suppose.”

“Morality is an axis that doesn’t interest us,” Mraize said calmly. “Only loyalty and power are relevant, for morality is as ephemeral as the changing weather. It depends upon the angle from which you view it. You will see, as you work with us, that I am right.”

“I’m not one of you,” Shallan hissed.

“For one so insistent,” Mraize said, picking up a chair, “you were certainly free in using our symbol last night.”

Shallan froze, then blushed furiously. So he knew about that? “I…”

“Your hunt is worthy,” Mraize said. “And you are allowed to rely upon our authority to achieve your goals. That is a benefit of your membership, so long as you do not abuse it.”

“And my brothers? Where are they? You promised to deliver them to me.”

“Patience, little knife. It has been but a few weeks since we rescued them. You will see my word fulfilled in that matter. Regardless, I have a task for you.”

“A task?” Shallan snapped, causing the chicken to chirp at her again. “Mraize, I’m not going to do some task for you people. You killed Jasnah.”

“An enemy combatant,” Mraize said. “Oh, don’t look at me like that. You know full well what that woman was capable of, and what she got herself into by attacking us. Do you blame your wonderfully moral Blackthorn for what he did in war? The countless people he slaughtered?”

“Don’t deflect your evils by pointing out the faults of others,” Shallan said. “I’m not going to further your cause. I don’t care how much you demand that I Soulcast for you, I’m not going to do it.”

“So quick to insist, yet you acknowledge your debt. One Soulcaster lost, destroyed. But we forgive these things, for missions undertaken. And before you object again, know that the task we require of you is one you’re already undertaking. Surely you have sensed the darkness in this place. The… wrongness.”

Shallan looked about the small room, flickering with shadows from a few candles on the counter.

“Your task,” Mraize said, “is to secure this location. Urithiru must remain strong if we are to properly use the advent of the Voidbringers.”

Use them?”

“Yes,” Mraize said. “This is a power we will control, but we must not let either side gain dominance yet. Secure Urithiru. Hunt the source of the darkness you feel, and expunge it. This is your task. And for it I will give payment in information.” He leaned closer to her and spoke a single word. “Helaran.”

He lifted the chair and walked out, adopting a more bumbling gait, stumbling and almost dropping the chair. Shallan stood there, stunned. Helaran. Her eldest brother had died in Alethkar—where he’d been for mysterious reasons.

Storms, what did Mraize know? She glared after him, outraged. How dare he tease with that name!

Don’t focus on Helaran right now. Those were dangerous thoughts, and she could not become Veil now. Shallan poured herself and Adolin cups of tea, then grabbed a chair under her arm and awkwardly navigated back out. She sat down beside Adolin, then handed him a cup. She took a sip and smiled at Ialai, who glared at her, then directed Mraize to fetch a cup.

“I think,” Ialai said to Adolin, “that if you honestly wish to solve this crime, you won’t be looking at my husband’s former enemies. Nobody had the opportunity or motives that you would find in your warcamp.”

Adolin sighed. “We established that—”

“I’m not saying Dalinar did this,” Ialai said. She seemed calm, but she gripped the sides of her chair with white-knuckled hands. And her eyes… makeup could not hide the redness. She’d been crying. She was truly upset.

Unless it was an act. I could fake crying, Shallan thought, if I knew that someone was coming to see me, and if I believed the act would strengthen my position.

“Then what are you saying?” Adolin asked.

“History is rife with examples of soldiers assuming orders when there were none,” Ialai said. “I agree that Dalinar would never knife an old friend in dark quarters. His soldiers may not be so inhibited. You want to know who did this, Adolin Kholin? Look among your own ranks. I would wager the princedom that somewhere in the Kholin army is a man who thought to do his highprince a service.”

“And the other murders?” Shallan said.

“I do not know the mind of this person,” Ialai said. “Maybe they have a taste for it now? In any case, I think we can agree this meeting serves no further purpose.” She stood up. “Good day, Adolin Kholin. I hope you will share what you discover with me, so that my own investigator can be better informed.”

“I suppose,” Adolin said, standing. “Who is leading your investigation? I’ll send him reports.”

“His name is Meridas Amaram. I believe you know him.”

Shallan gaped. “Amaram? Highmarshal Amaram?”

“Of course,” Ialai said. “He is among my husband’s most acclaimed generals.”

Amaram. He’d killed her brother. She glanced at Mraize, who kept his expression neutral. Storms, what did he know? She still didn’t understand where Helaran had gotten his Shardblade. What had led him to clash with Amaram in the first place?

“Amaram is here?” Adolin asked. “When?”

“He arrived with the last caravan and scavenging crew that you brought through the Oathgate. He didn’t make himself known to the tower, but to me alone. We have been seeing to his needs, as he was caught out in a storm with his attendants. He assures me he will return to duty soon, and will make finding my husband’s murderer a priority.”

“I see,” Adolin said.

He looked to Shallan, and she nodded, still stunned. Together they collected her soldiers from right inside the door, and left into the hallway beyond.

“Amaram,” Adolin hissed. “Bridgeboy isn’t going to be happy about this. They have a vendetta, those two.”

Not just Kaladin.

“Father originally appointed Amaram to refound the Knights Radiant,” Adolin continued. “If Ialai has taken him in after he was so soundly discredited… The mere act of it calls Father a liar, doesn’t it? Shallan?”

She shook herself and took a deep breath. Helaran was long dead. She would worry about getting answers from Mraize later.

“It depends on how she spins things,” she said softly, walking beside Adolin. “But yes, she implies that Dalinar is at the least overly judgmental in his treatment of Amaram. She’s reinforcing her side as an alternative to your father’s rule.”

Adolin sighed. “I’d have thought that without Sadeas, maybe it would get easier.”

“Politics is involved, Adolin—so by definition it can’t be easy.” She took his arm, wrapping hers around it as they passed another group of hostile guards.

“I’m terrible at this,” Adolin said softly. “I got so annoyed in there, I almost punched her. You watch, Shallan. I’ll ruin this.”

“Will you? Because I think you’re right about there being multiple killers.”

“What? Really?”

She nodded. “I heard some things while I was out last night.”

“When you weren’t staggering around drunk, you mean.”

“I’ll have you know I’m a very graceful drunk, Adolin Kholin. Let’s go…” She trailed off as a pair of scribes ran past in the hallway, heading toward Ialai’s rooms at a shocking speed. Guards marched after them.

Adolin caught one by the arm, nearly provoking a fight as the man cursed at the blue uniform. The fellow, fortunately, recognized Adolin’s face and held himself back, hand moving off the axe in a sling to his side.

“Brightlord,” the man said, reluctant.

“What is this?” Adolin said. He nodded down the hall. “Why is everyone suddenly talking at that guard post farther along?”

“News from the coast,” the guard finally said. “Stormwall spotted in New Natanan. The highstorms. They’ve returned.”

 


 

Chapter 23
Storming Strange

I am no poet, to delight you with clever allusions.

—From Oathbringer, preface

 

I don’t got any meat to sell,” the old lighteyes said as he led Kaladin into the storm bunker. “But your brightlord and his men can weather in here, and for cheap.” He waved his cane toward the large hollow building. It reminded Kaladin of the barracks on the Shattered Plains—long and narrow, with one small end pointed eastward.

“We’ll need it to ourselves,” Kaladin said. “My brightlord values his privacy.”

The elderly man glanced at Kaladin, taking in the blue uniform. Now that the Weeping had passed, it looked better. He wouldn’t wear it to an officer’s review, but he’d spent some good time scrubbing out the stains and polishing the buttons.

Kholin uniform in Vamah lands. It could imply a host of things. Hopefully one of them was not “This Kholin offi er has joined a bunch of runaway parshmen.”

“I can give you the whole bunker,” the merchant said. “Was supposed to be renting it to some caravans out of Revolar, but they didn’t show.”

“What happened?”

“Don’t know,” he said. “But it’s storming strange, I’d say. Three caravans, with different masters and goods, all gone silent. Not even a runner to give me word. Glad I took ten percent up front.”

Revolar. It was Vamah’s seat, the largest city between here and Kholinar.

“We’ll take the bunker,” Kaladin said, handing over some dun spheres. “And whatever food you can spare.”

“Not much, by an army’s scale. Maybe a sack of longroots or two. Some lavis. Was expectin’ one of those caravans to resupply me.” He shook his head, expression distant. “Strange times, Corporal. That wrong-way storm. You reckon it will keep coming back?”

Kaladin nodded. The Everstorm had hit again the day before, its second occurrence—not counting the initial one that had only come in the far east. Kaladin and the parshmen had weathered this one, upon warning from the unseen spren, in an abandoned mine.

“Strange times,” the old man said again. “Well, if you do need meat, there’s been a nest of wild hogs rooting about in the ravine to the south of here. This is Highlord Cadilar’s land though, so um.… Well, you just understand that.” If Kaladin’s fictional “brightlord” was traveling on the king’s orders, they could hunt the lands. If not, killing another highlord’s hogs would be poaching.

The old man spoke like a backwater farmer, light yellow eyes notwithstanding, but he’d obviously made something of himself running a waystop. A lonely life, but the money was probably quite good.

“Let’s see what food I can find you here,” the old man said. “Follow along. Now, you’re sure a storm is coming?”

“I have charts promising it.”

“Well, bless the Almighty and Heralds for that, I suppose. Will catch some people surprised, but it will be nice to be able to work my spanreed again.”

Kaladin followed the man to a stone rootshed on the leeward edge of his home, and haggled—briefly—for three sacks of vegetables. “One other thing,” Kaladin added. “You can’t watch the army arrive.”

“What? Corporal, it’s my duty to see your people settled in—”

“My brightlord is a very private person. It’s important nobody know of our passing. Very important.” He laid his hand on his belt knife.

The lighteyed man just sniffed. “I can be trusted to hold my tongue, soldier. And don’t threaten me. I’m sixth dahn.” He raised his chin, but when he hobbled back into his house, he shut the door tight and pulled closed the stormshutters.

Kaladin transferred the three sacks into the bunker, then hiked out to where he’d left the parshmen. He kept glancing about for Syl, but of course he saw nothing. The Voidspren was following him, hidden, likely to make sure he didn’t do anything underhanded.


They made it back right before the storm.

Khen, Sah, and the others had wanted to wait until dark—unwilling to trust that the old lighteyes wouldn’t spy on them. But the wind had started blowing, and they’d finally believed Kaladin that a storm was imminent.

Kaladin stood by the bunker’s doorway, anxious as the parshmen piled in. They’d picked up other groups in the last few days, led by unseen Voidspren that he was told darted away once their charges were delivered. Their numbers were now verging on a hundred, including the children and elderly. Nobody would tell Kaladin their end goal, only that the spren had a destination in mind.

Khen was last through the door; the large, muscled parshwoman lingered, as if she wanted to watch the storm. Finally she took their spheres— most of which they’d stolen from him—and locked the sack into the iron-banded lantern on the wall outside. She waved Kaladin through the door, then followed, barring it closed.

“You did well, human,” she said to Kaladin. “I’ll speak for you when we reach the gathering.”

“Thanks,” Kaladin said. Outside, the stormwall hit the bunker, making the stones shake and the very ground rattle.

The parshmen settled down to wait. Hesh dug into the sacks and inspected the vegetables with a critical eye. She’d worked the kitchens of a manor.

Kaladin settled with his back to the wall, feeling the storm rage outside. Strange, how he could hate the mild Weeping so much, yet feel a thrill when he heard thunder beyond these stones. That storm had tried its best to kill him on several occasions. He felt a kinship to it—but still a wariness. It was a sergeant who was too brutal in training his recruits.

The storm would renew the gems outside, which included not only spheres, but the larger gemstones he’d been carrying. Once renewed, he— well, the parshmen—would have a wealth of Stormlight.

He needed to make a decision. How long could he delay flying back to the Shattered Plains? Even if he had to stop at a larger city to trade his dun spheres for infused ones, he could probably make it in under a day.

He couldn’t dally forever. What were they doing at Urithiru? What was the word from the rest of the world? The questions hounded him. Once, he had been happy to worry only about his own squad. After that, he’d been willing to look after a battalion. Since when had the state of the entire world become his concern?

I need to steal back my spanreed at the very least, and send a message to Brightness Navani.

Something flickered at the edge of his vision. Syl had come back? He glanced toward her, a question on his lips, and barely stopped the words as he realized his error.

The spren beside him was glowing yellow, not blue-white. The tiny woman stood on a translucent pillar of golden stone that had risen from the ground to put her even with Kaladin’s gaze. It, like the spren herself, was the yellow-white color of the center of a flame.

She wore a flowing dress that covered her legs entirely. Hands behind her back, she inspected him. Her face was shaped oddly—narrow, but with large, childlike eyes. Like someone from Shinovar.

Kaladin jumped, which caused the little spren to smile.

Pretend you don’t know anything about spren like her, Kaladin thought. “Um. Uh… I can see you.”

“Because I want you to,” she said. “You are an odd one.”

“Why… why do you want me to see you?”

“So we can talk.” She started to stroll around him, and at each step, a spike of yellow stone shot up from the ground and met her bare foot. “Why are you still here, human?”

“Your parshmen took me captive.”

“Your mother teach you to lie like that?” she asked, sounding amused. “They’re less than a month old. Congratulations on fooling them.” She stopped and smiled at him. “I’m a tad older than a month.”

“The world is changing,” Kaladin said. “The country is in upheaval. I guess I want to see where this goes.”

She contemplated him. Fortunately, he had a good excuse for the bead of sweat that trickled down the side of his face. Facing a strangely intelligent, glowing yellow spren would unnerve anyone, not just a man with too many things to hide.

“Would you fight for us, deserter?” she asked.

“Would I be allowed?”

“My kind aren’t nearly as inclined toward discrimination as yours. If you can carry a spear and take orders, then I certainly wouldn’t turn you away.” She folded her arms, smiling in a strangely knowing way. “The final decision won’t be mine. I am but a messenger.”

“Where can I find out for certain?”

“At our destination.”

“Which is…”

“Close enough,” the spren said. “Why? You have pressing appointments elsewhere? Off for a beard trim perhaps, or a lunch date with your grandmother?”

Kaladin rubbed at his face. He’d almost been able to forget about the hairs that prickled at the sides of his mouth.

“Tell me,” the spren asked, “how did you know that there would be a highstorm tonight?”

“Felt it,” Kaladin said, “in my bones.”

“Humans cannot feel storms, regardless of the body part in question.”

He shrugged. “Seemed like the right time for one, with the Weeping having stopped and all.”

She didn’t nod or give any visible sign of what she thought of that comment. She merely held her knowing smile, then faded from his view.

 


 

Chapter 24
Men of Blood and Sorrow

I have no doubt that you are smarter than I am. I can only relate what happened, what I have done, and then let you draw conclusions.

—From Oathbringer, preface

Dalinar remembered.

Her name had been Evi. She’d been tall and willowy, with pale yellow hair—not true golden, like the hair of the Iriali, but striking in its own right.

She’d been quiet. Shy, both she and her brother, for all that they’d been willing to flee their homeland in an act of courage. They’d brought Shardplate, and…

That was all that had emerged over the last few days. The rest was still a blur. He could recall meeting Evi, courting her—awkwardly, since both knew it was an arrangement of political necessity—and eventually entering into a causal betrothal.

He didn’t remember love, but he did remember attraction.

The memories brought questions, like cremlings emerging from their hollows after the rain. He ignored them, standing straight-backed with a line of guards on the field in front of Urithiru, suffering a bitter wind from the west. This wide plateau held some dumps of wood, as part of this space would probably end up becoming a lumberyard.

Behind him, the end of a rope blew in the wind, smacking a pile of wood again and again. A pair of windspren danced past, in the shapes of little people.

Why am I remembering Evi now? Dalinar wondered. And why have I recovered only my first memories of our time together?

He had always remembered the difficult years following Evi’s death, which had culminated in his being drunk and useless on the night Szeth, the Assassin in White, had killed his brother. He assumed that he’d gone to the Nightwatcher to be rid of the pain at losing her, and the spren had taken his other memories as payment. He didn’t know for certain, but that seemed right.

Bargains with the Nightwatcher were supposed to be permanent. Damning, even. So what was happening to him?

Dalinar glanced at his bracer clocks, strapped to his forearm. Five minutes late. Storms. He’d been wearing the thing barely a few days, and already he was counting minutes like a scribe.

The second of the two watch faces—which would count down to the next highstorm—still hadn’t been engaged. A single highstorm had come, blessedly, carrying Stormlight to renew spheres. It seemed like so long since they’d had enough of that.

However, it would take until the next highstorm for the scribes to make guesses at the current pattern. Even then they could be wrong, as the Weeping had lasted far longer than it should have. Centuries—millennia— of careful records might now be obsolete.

Once, that alone would have been a catastrophe. It threatened to ruin planting seasons and cause famines, to upend travel and shipping, disrupting trade. Unfortunately, in the face of the Everstorm and the Voidbringers, it was barely third on the list of cataclysms.

The cold wind blew at him again. Before them, the grand plateau of Urithiru was ringed by ten large platforms, each raised about ten feet high, with steps up beside a ramp for carts. At the center of each one was a small building containing the device that—

With a bright flash, an expanding wave of Stormlight spread outward from the center of the second platform from the left. When the Light faded, Dalinar led his troop of honor guards up the wide steps to the top. They crossed to the building at the center, where a small group of people had stepped out and were now gawking at Urithiru, surrounded by awespren.

Dalinar smiled. The sight of a tower as wide as a city and as tall as a small mountain… well, there wasn’t anything else like it in the world.

At the head of the newcomers was a man in burnt orange robes. Aged, with a kindly, clean-shaven face, he stood with his head tipped back and jaw lowered as he regarded the city. Near him stood a woman with silvery hair pulled up in a bun. Adrotagia, the head Kharbranthian scribe.

Some thought she was the true power behind the throne; others guessed it was that other scribe, the one they had left running Kharbranth in its king’s absence. Whoever it was, they kept Taravangian as a figurehead— and Dalinar was happy to work through him to get to Jah Keved and Kharbranth. This man had been a friend to Gavilar; that was good enough for Dalinar. And he was more than glad to have at least one other monarch at Urithiru.

Taravangian smiled at Dalinar, then licked his lips. He seemed to have forgotten what he wanted to say, and had to glance at the woman beside him for support. She whispered, and he spoke loudly after the reminder.

“Blackthorn,” Taravangian said. “It is an honor to meet you again. It has been too long.”

“Your Majesty,” Dalinar said. “Thank you so much for responding to my call.” Dalinar had met Taravangian several times, years ago. He remembered a man of quiet, keen intelligence.

That was gone now. Taravangian had always been humble, and had kept to himself, so most didn’t know he’d been intelligent once—before his strange illness five years ago, which Navani was fairly certain covered an apoplexy that had permanently wounded his mental capacities.

Adrotagia touched Taravangian’s arm and nodded toward someone standing with the Kharbranthian guards: a middle-aged lighteyed woman wearing a skirt and blouse, after a Southern style, with the top buttons of the blouse undone. Her hair was short in a boyish cut, and she wore gloves on both hands.

The strange woman stretched her right hand over her head, and a Shardblade appeared in it. She rested it with the flat side against her shoulder.

“Ah yes,” Taravangian said. “Introductions! Blackthorn, this is the newest Knight Radiant. Malata of Jah Keved.”


King Taravangian gawked like a child as they rode the lift toward the top of the tower. He leaned over the side far enough that his large Thaylen bodyguard rested a careful hand on the king’s shoulder, just in case.

“So many levels,” Taravangian said. “And this balcony. Tell me, Brightlord. What makes it move?”

His sincerity was so unexpected. Dalinar had been around Alethi politicians so much that he found honesty an obscure thing, like a language he no longer spoke.

“My engineers are still studying the lifts,” Dalinar said. “It has to do with conjoined fabrials, they believe, with gears to modulate speed.”

Taravangian blinked. “Oh. I meant… is this Stormlight? Or is someone pulling somewhere? We had parshmen do ours, back in Kharbranth.”

“Stormlight,” Dalinar said. “We had to replace the gemstones with infused ones to make it work.”

“Ah.” He shook his head, grinning.

In Alethkar, this man would never have been able to hold a throne after the apoplexy struck him. An unscrupulous family would have removed him by assassination. In other families, someone would have challenged him for his throne. He’d have been forced to fight or abdicate.

Or… well, someone might have muscled him out of power, and acted like king in all but name. Dalinar sighed softly, but kept a firm grip on his guilt.

Taravangian wasn’t Alethi. In Kharbranth—which didn’t wage war—a mild, congenial figurehead made more sense. The city was supposed to be unassuming, unthreatening. It was a twist of luck that Taravangian had also been crowned king of Jah Keved, once one of the most powerful kingdoms on Roshar, following its civil war.

He would normally have had trouble keeping that throne, but perhaps Dalinar might lend him some support—or at least authority—through association. Dalinar certainly intended to do everything he could.

“Your Majesty,” Dalinar said, stepping closer to Taravangian. “How well guarded is Vedenar? I have a great number of troops with too much idle time. I could easily spare a battalion or two to help secure the city. We can’t afford to lose the Oathgate to the enemy.”

Taravangian glanced at Adrotagia.

She answered for him. “The city is secure, Brightlord. You needn’t fear. The parshmen made one push for the city, but there are still many Veden troops available. We fended the enemy off, and they withdrew eastward.”

Toward Alethkar, Dalinar thought.

Taravangian again looked out into the wide central column, lit from the sheer glass window to the east. “Ah, how I wish this day hadn’t come.”

“You sound as if you anticipated it, Your Majesty,” Dalinar said.

Taravangian laughed softly. “Don’t you? Anticipate sorrow, I mean? Sadness… loss…”

“I try not to hasten my expectations in either direction,” Dalinar said. “The soldier’s way. Deal with today’s problems, then sleep and deal with tomorrow’s problems tomorrow.”

Taravangian nodded. “I remember, as a child, listening to an ardent pray to the Almighty on my behalf as glyphwards burned nearby. I remember thinking… surely the sorrows can’t be past us. Surely the evils didn’t actually end. If they had, wouldn’t we be back in the Tranquiline Halls even now?” He looked toward Dalinar, and surprisingly there were tears in his pale grey eyes. “I do not think you and I are destined for such a glorious place. Men of blood and sorrow don’t get an ending like that, Dalinar Kholin.”

Dalinar found himself without a reply. Adrotagia gripped Taravangian on the forearm with a comforting gesture, and the old king turned away, hiding his emotional outburst. What had happened in Vedenar must have troubled him deeply—the death of the previous king, the field of slaughter.

They rode the rest of the way in silence, and Dalinar took the chance to study Taravangian’s Surgebinder. She’d been the one to unlock—then activate—the Veden Oathgate on the other side, which she’d managed after some careful instructions from Navani. Now the woman, Malata, leaned idly against the side of the balcony. She hadn’t spoken much during their tour of the first three levels, and when she looked at Dalinar, she always seemed to have a hint of a smile on her lips.

She carried a wealth of spheres in her skirt pocket; the light shone through the fabric. Perhaps that was why she smiled. He himself felt relieved to have Light at his fingertips again—and not only because it meant the Alethi Soulcasters could get back to work, using their emeralds to transform rock to grain to feed the hungry people of the tower.

Navani met them at the top level, immaculate in an ornate silver and black havah, her hair in a bun and stabbed through with hairspikes meant to resemble Shardblades. She greeted Taravangian warmly, then clasped hands with Adrotagia. After a greeting, Navani stepped back and let Teshav guide Taravangian and his little retinue into what they were calling the Initiation Room.

Navani herself drew Dalinar to the side. “Well?” she whispered.

“He’s as sincere as ever,” Dalinar said softly. “But…”

“Dense?” she asked.

“Dear, I’m dense. This man has become an idiot.”

“You’re not dense, Dalinar,” she said. “You’re rugged. Practical.”

“I’ve no illusions as to the thickness of my skull, gemheart. It’s done right by me on more than one occasion—better a thick head than a broken one. But I don’t know that Taravangian in his current state will be of much use.”

“Bah,” Navani said. “We’ve more than enough clever people around us, Dalinar. Taravangian was always a friend to Alethkar during your brother’s reign, and a little illness shouldn’t change our treatment of him.”

“You’re right, of course.…” He trailed off “There’s an earnestness to him, Navani. And a melancholy I hadn’t remembered. Was that always there?”

“Yes, actually.” She checked her own arm clock, like his own, though with a few more gemstones attached. Some kind of new fabrial she was tinkering with.

“Any news from Captain Kaladin?”

She shook her head. It had been days since his last check-in, but he’d likely run out of infused rubies. Now that the highstorms had returned, they’d expected something.

In the room, Teshav gestured to the various pillars, each representing an order of Knight Radiant. Dalinar and Navani waited in the doorway, separated from the rest.

“What of the Surgebinder?” Navani whispered.

“A Releaser. Dustbringer, though they don’t like the term. She claims her spren told her that.” He rubbed his chin. “I don’t like how she smiles.”

“If she’s truly a Radiant,” Navani said, “can she be anything but trustworthy? Would the spren pick someone who would act against the best interests of the orders?”

Another question he didn’t know the answer to. He’d need to see if he could determine whether her Shardblade was only that, or if it might be another Honorblade in disguise.

The touring group moved down a set of steps toward the meeting chamber, which took up most of the penultimate level and sloped down to the level below. Dalinar and Navani trailed after them.

Navani, he thought. On my arm. It still gave him a heady, surreal feeling. Dreamlike, as if this were one of his visions. He could vividly remember desiring her. Thinking about her, captivated by the way she talked, the things she knew, the look of her hands as she sketched—or, storms, as she did something as simple as raising a spoon to her lips. He remembered staring at her.

He remembered a specific day on a battlefield, when he had almost let his jealousy of his brother lead him too far—and was surprised to feel Evi slipping into that memory. Her presence colored the old, crusty memory of those war days with his brother.

“My memories continue to return,” he said softly as they paused at the door into the conference room. “I can only assume that eventually it will all come back.”

“That shouldn’t be happening.”

“I thought the same. But really, who can say? The Old Magic is said to be inscrutable.”

“No,” Navani said, folding her arms, getting a stern expression on her face—as if angry with a stubborn child. “In each case I’ve looked into, the boon and curse both lasted until death.”

“Each case?” Dalinar said. “How many did you find?”

“About three hundred at this point,” Navani said. “It’s been difficult to get any time from the researchers at the Palanaeum; everyone the world over is demanding research into the Voidbringers. Fortunately, His Majesty’s impending visit here earned me special consideration, and I had some credit. They say it’s best to patronize the place in person—at least Jasnah always said…”

She took a breath, steadying herself before continuing. “In any case, Dalinar, the research is definitive. We haven’t been able to find a single case where the effects of the Old Magic wore off—and it’s not like people haven’t tried over the centuries. Lore about people dealing with their curses, and seeking any cure for them, is practically its own genre. As my researcher said, ‘Old Magic curses aren’t like a hangover, Brightness.’ ”

She looked up at Dalinar, and must have seen the emotion in his face, for she cocked her head. “What?” she asked.

“I’ve never had anyone to share this burden with,” he said softly. “Thank you.”

“I didn’t find anything.”

“It doesn’t matter.”

“Could you at least confirm with the Stormfather again that his bond with you is absolutely, for sure not what’s causing the memories to come back?”

“I’ll see.”

The Stormfather rumbled. Why would she want me to say more? I have spoken, and spren do not change like men. This is not my doing. It is not the bond.

“He says it’s not him,” Dalinar said. “He’s… annoyed at you for asking again.”

She kept her arms crossed. This was something she shared with her daughter, a characteristic frustration with problems she couldn’t solve. As if she were disappointed in the facts for not arranging themselves more helpfully.

“Maybe,” she said, “something was different about the deal you made. If you can recount your visit to me sometime—with as much detail as you can remember—I’ll compare it to other accounts.”

He shook his head. “There wasn’t much. The Valley had a lot of plants. And… I remember… I asked to have my pain taken away, and she took memories too. I think?” He shrugged, then noticed Navani pursing her lips, her stare sharpening. “I’m sorry. I—”

“It’s not you,” Navani said. “It’s the Nightwatcher. Giving you a deal when you were probably too distraught to think straight, then erasing your memory of the details?”

“She’s a spren. I don’t think we can expect her to play by—or even understand—our rules.” He wished he could give her more, but even if he could dredge up something, this wasn’t the time. They should be paying attention to their guests.

Teshav had finished pointing out the strange glass panes on the inner walls that seemed like windows, only clouded. She moved on to the pairs of discs on the floor and ceiling that looked something like the top and bottom of a pillar that had been removed—a feature of a number of rooms they’d explored.

Once that was done, Taravangian and Adrotagia returned to the top of the room, near the windows. The new Radiant, Malata, lounged in a seat near the wall-mounted sigil of the Dustbringers, staring at it.

Dalinar and Navani climbed the steps to stand by Taravangian. “Breathtaking, isn’t it?” Dalinar asked. “An even better view than from the lift.”

“Overwhelming,” Taravangian said. “So much space. We think… we think that we are the most important things on Roshar. Yet so much of Roshar is empty of us.”

Dalinar cocked his head. Yes… perhaps some of the old Taravangian lingered in there somewhere.

“Is this where you’ll have us meet?” Adrotagia asked, nodding toward the room. “When you’ve gathered all the monarchs, will this be our council chamber?”

“No,” Dalinar said. “This seems too much like a lecture hall. I don’t want the monarchs to feel as if they’re being preached to.”

“And… when will they come?” Taravangian asked, hopeful. “I am looking forward to meeting the others. The king of Azir… didn’t you tell me there was a new one, Adrotagia? I know Queen Fen—she’s very nice. Will we be inviting the Shin? So mysterious. Do they even have a king? Don’t they live in tribes or something? Like Marati barbarians?”

Adrotagia tapped his arm fondly, but looked to Dalinar, obviously curious about the other monarchs.

Dalinar cleared his throat, but Navani spoke.

“So far, Your Majesty,” she said, “you are the only one who has heeded our warning call.”

Silence followed.

“Thaylenah?” Adrotagia asked hopefully.

“We’ve exchanged communications on five separate occasions,” Navani said. “In each one, the queen has dodged our requests. Azir has been even more stubborn.”

“Iri dismissed us almost outright,” Dalinar said with a sigh. “Neither Marabethia nor Rira would respond to the initial request. There’s no real government in the Reshi Isles or some of the middle states. Babatharnam’s Most Ancient has been coy, and most of the Makabaki states imply that they’re waiting for Azir to make a decision. The Shin sent only a quick reply to congratulate us, whatever that means.”

“Hateful people,” Taravangian said. “Murdering so many worthy monarchs!”

“Um, yes,” Dalinar said, uncomfortable at the king’s sudden change in attitude. “Our primary focus has been on places with Oathgates, for strategic reasons. Azir, Thaylen City, and Iri seem most essential. However, we’ve made overtures to everyone who will listen, Oathgate or no. New Natanan is being coy so far, and the Herdazians think I’m trying to trick them. The Tukari scribes keep claiming they will bring my words to their god-king.”

Navani cleared her throat. “We actually got a reply from him, just a bit ago. Teshav’s ward was monitoring the spanreeds. It’s not exactly encouraging.”

“I’d like to hear it anyway.”

She nodded, and went to collect it from Teshav. Adrotagia gave him a questioning glance, but he didn’t dismiss the two of them. He wanted them to feel they were part of an alliance, and perhaps they would have insights that would prove helpful.

Navani returned with a single sheet of paper. Dalinar couldn’t read the script on it, but the lines seemed sweeping and grand—imperious.

“ ‘A warning,’” Navani read, “ ‘from Tezim the Great, last and first man, Herald of Heralds and bearer of the Oathpact. His grandness, immortality, and power be praised. Lift up your heads and hear, men of the east, of your God’s proclamation.

“ ‘None are Radiant but him. His fury is ignited by your pitiful claims, and your unlawful capture of his holy city is an act of rebellion, depravity, and wickedness. Open your gates, men of the east, to his righteous soldiers and deliver unto him your spoils.

“ ‘Renounce your foolish claims and swear yourselves to him. The judgment of the final storm has come to destroy all men, and only his path will lead to deliverance. He deigns to send you this single mandate, and will not speak it again. Even this is far above what your carnal natures deserve.’ ”

She lowered the paper.

“Wow,” Adrotagia said. “Well, at least it’s clear.”

Taravangian scratched at his head, brow furrowed, as if he didn’t agree with that statement at all.

“I guess,” Dalinar said, “we can cross the Tukari off our list of possible allies.”

“I’d rather have the Emuli anyway,” Navani said. “Their soldiers might be less capable, but they’re also… well, not crazy.

“So… we are alone?” Taravangian said, looking from Dalinar to Adrotagia, uncertain.

“We are alone, Your Majesty,” Dalinar said. “The end of the world has come, and still nobody will listen.”

Taravangian nodded to himself. “Where do we attack first? Herdaz? My aides say it is the traditional first step for an Alethi aggression, but they also point out that if you could somehow take Thaylenah, you’d completely control the Straits and even the Depths.”

Dalinar listened to the words with dismay. It was the obvious assumption. So clear that even simpleminded Taravangian saw it. What else to make of Alethkar proposing a union? Alethkar, the great conquerors? Led by the Blackthorn, the man who had united his own kingdom by the sword?

It was the suspicion that had tainted every conversation with the other monarchs. Storms, he thought. Taravangian didn’t come because he believed in my grand alliance. He assumed that if he didn’t, I wouldn’t send my armies to Herdaz or Thaylenah—I’d send them to Jah Keved. To him.

“We’re not going to attack anyone,” Dalinar said. “Our focus is on the Voidbringers, the true enemy. We will win the other kingdoms with diplomacy.”

Taravangian frowned. “But—”

Adrotagia, however, touched him on the arm and quieted him. “Of course, Brightlord,” she said to Dalinar. “We understand.”

She thought he was lying.

And are you?

What would he do if nobody listened? How would he save Roshar without the Oathgates? Without resources?

If our plan to reclaim Kholinar works, he thought, wouldn’t it make sense to take the other gates the same way? Nobody would be able to fight both us and the Voidbringers. We could seize their capitals and force them—for their own good— to join our unified war effort.

He’d been willing to conquer Alethkar for its own good. He’d been willing to seize the kingship in all but name, again for the good of his people.

How far would he go for the good of all Roshar? How far would he go to prepare them for the coming of that enemy? A champion with nine shadows.

I will unite instead of divide.

He found himself standing at that window beside Taravangian, staring out over the mountains, his memories of Evi carrying with them a fresh and dangerous perspective.

 

Oathbringer: The Stormlight Archive Book 3 copyright © 2017 Dragonsteel Entertainment, LLC

About the Author

Brandon Sanderson

Author

Author Brandon Sanderson is the author of the best-selling Stormlight Archive fantasy series. His published works include Elantris (2005), Warbreaker (2009), the ongoing Mistborn series, the Alcatraz and Reckoners YA series, and many more.

Following the death of Robert Jordan in 2007, Jordan's wife and editor Harriet McDougal recruited Sanderson to finish Jordan's epic multi-volume fantasy series The Wheel of Time from Jordan's extensive drafts and notes. The series was concluded in 2013 with the publication of A Memory of Light, by Jordan and Sanderson.

Wikipedia |Author Page | Goodreads

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7 years ago

Finally! Best part of my week. Can’t wait to read this book!

First!

OK. Mraize’s chicken. One could almost think he had visited First of the Sun…

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7 years ago

Finally, the hour has been struck!

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KnightRadiant
7 years ago

Finally, a new chapter is released!

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jacob
7 years ago

yayyyyy!

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Hrishabh
7 years ago

YAYYY!!!

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7 years ago

A lot to unpack here. Some of the things that stood out to me:

-Did Ialai send Mraize and Shallan off together on purpose? That would suggest she knows… something 

-The voidspren reminds me of Syl. 

-Looks like the god-king is a Herald after all. We’ve seen Nale, Taln, and probably-Kelak onscreen, and Jezrien is implied to be catatonic, so I guess he’s Ishar. Unless Taln turns out not to be Taln. 

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Ragnar Dansiskjold
7 years ago

This is what I have been waiting for. The chapters up until now have been interesting and fun but, these ones are moving the story forward in a fashion that really excites me. It is interesting to see Taravangian in one of his idiot-compassion moods too.

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Chi
7 years ago

New doubts about Jasnah from the last bit. It could be her addressing somebody directly (Shallan? Is she smarter, really?) or not her at all

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7 years ago

@1 I thought of the Aviar immediately, too.

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7 years ago

Anyone else getting a piratey vibe from Mraize,  for just a second?

Also, we finally are told what Dalinar asked for, but it still doesn’t tell us a storming thing!

@6: Or he could just be your stereotypical mortal god-king.  Sanderson has written several of them, and there have been (and arguably, still are) plenty IRL.  Doesn’t mean the guy’s literally divine.

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7 years ago

Tezim = Ishar stood out to me as well… Perhaps that’s too obvious though.

And Amaram?! I was so hopeful that we’d be done with him… Now Shallan will almost certainly find out the truth of what happened to Helaran, and will start to hate Kaladin…

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7 years ago

Well, I don’t think the writer of this book is Jasnah. She doesn’t really strike me as someone who has ‘no doubts’ that most people who will read the book will be smarter than her. Dalinar seems more likely to me now, considering his comment about his denseness this chapter. He also likes long metaphorical stories that are supposed to teach important life lessons. And this preface is taking ages to get to the point.

So it turns out not even Dalinar knows which is his boon and which is his curse. Well, that doesn’t sound at all like it will go horribly wrong.. Is he even sure that the pain he asked to be taken away was the loss of his wife? He thinks so, but does he know?

And we finally see the voidspren (what makes a spren a voidspren? Is it a personal choice of allegiance? Are they simply specific types of spren?). Maybe it’s her constant amusement, and the fact that glowing/stone are elements that seem to be connected to the Dustbringers, but having these two chapters back to back makes me very suspicious of Malata, the new Radiant. Nothing good has ever come from a character that constantly seems to be amused. Or maybe she knows about Taravangian, and is amused by how dismayed Dalinar and Navani are showing at his current intelligence level.

Also, Taravangian: “Hateful people,” Taravangian said. “Murdering so many worthy monarchs!”
Not cool, man.

I don’t think Tezim is an actual herald, but if he claims he’s the herald who ‘bears the Oathpact’, then he probably believes he’s Talenel. Considering he’s not the only one in-story with this claim, this could lead to problems later down the line. :) I believe WoB says we’re going to find out for sure if the man who calls himself Taln is speaking the truth in this book. Maybe this confrontation will be the way we’re going to find out. I don’t think Tezim is going to stay in Tukar after this.. strongly worded message about the ‘holy city’.

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SRAF
7 years ago

Oooomg

So many new questions!

I just… I can’t think right now. I’ll have to come back later when it makes more sense in my head. This was awesome!

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7 years ago

@7 I’m not sure this is one of Taravangian idiot/not smart days. Not after his comment on blaming the shin for murdering the monarchs. He could be playing to expectations so they don’t guard their information.

I think Mraize is heading towards outing Kaladin as killing Helaran when he is not around to give his side, and therefore breaking up the unity between the knights radiant.

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Picadelio
7 years ago

@12 A voidspren is of Odium, while other spren are of Honor/Cultivation. I think the connections are a red herring given that in WoR the Dustbringers are described as having similar powers to Voidbinders but aren’t related.

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Yamahako
7 years ago

I think its Dalinar writing the blurbs. He always says he’s not smart, and it is his book…

If Dalinar’s deal was to take the pain away- maybe the memories are coming back because they will no longer be painful for him?

ImpatientKensai
7 years ago

Wow great chapters. My initial thoughts: 

1. I am curious whether Mraize knows about Kaladin and how that really went down with Heleran’s death. I guess we’ll find out eventually.

2. I suppose this confirms there is some kind of supernatural thing/darkness causing the duplicated murders. I really am excited for Shallan to face off with this thing. Also, I’m curious what will happen when the Ghostblood’s objectives start to deviate from the Radiants. How engulfed will Shallan be by that point with the organization? When will she tell Dalinar for crying out loud. 

3. BS did a great job of making that Void spren creepy. I’m curious what will go down at the “Gathering”. My prediction: it will take place during the everstorm and they will all have a chance to bond with a void spren. 

4. Was that a typo that “Dalinar remembered” was part of the preface to Oathbringer? I believe it was so I will forgo stating that Dalinar is dictating OB. 

5. Creepy ol’ T on a dumb but compassionate day. I really hope he’s on board with Dalinar rather than trying to undermine him with the Diagram objectives.

6. I hope Dalinar at least interviews the new Radiant Malata before the initiation. No connection with Malasha? That was one of Adolin’s former courtships wasn’t it? We finally have a Dustbringer, or as Dalinar puts it Releaser. Dustbringer sounds better but I get why they don’t like it. Guess we’ll see if she’s been biased by the Diagram or not. 

Amazing chapters can’t wait for more. 

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7 years ago

Whoever’s writing the preface needs a good editor. Shut up and get to the point already. Lady Trent* has some long-winded prefaces but even she would have said something interesting by now. Sazed would have spoiled an entire series of books.

Dear voidspren, less cryptic, more infodumping, thanks.

@14 Blasted politics, can’t take anything at face value.

*The noted expert in dragons.

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7 years ago

Was it just me or did those chapters feel shorter than normal? Maybe it’s just that we were getting a lot of information and I just need more now! I’m almost going to be disappointed when the book comes out now, and I don’t get my weekly fix anymore.

I’m excited to see what happens with Amaram from here on out. Of course he’d be picked up by Ialai, that’s the perfect way to get him back in the action. It was good to see Adolin holding his own a bit as well. Honestly dealing with the Sadeas camp is going to get even more tricky now -Ialai seems more cunning than her husband was, and now she’s vengeful, which doesn’t bode well for the Kholins. 

That final epigraph quote, “I have no doubt that you are smarter than I am.” Yeah, there’s no way that’s Jasnah lol. 

Of course we’d get Dalinar’s POV ruminating on his visit to the nightwatcher, and find out even he doesn’t know what the boon and curse was! I’m thinking it’s probably not boon: ridding himself of the pain, curse: removing memories, since he mentions that’s what it must be (but he’s not sure) twice, and that seems like a classic misdirect. 

“In each case I’ve looked into, the boon and curse both lasted until death.” That made me nervous for a bit that maybe the implication could be that Dalinar is dying. But as a Radiant, he could cure himself of any illness, right? Right??

I’m intrigued by the new Radiant. Hope to see her interactions with the Knights Radiant crew Dalinar is setting up soon. I’m glad that even though Navani hopes that being a Radiant means they must be trustworthy, they’re still staying wary of her. 

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7 years ago

 @@@@@ 15 Picadelio
True, but are they a specific group or groups of spren, like the highspren or the cryptics, that are simply called voidspren (or stormspren)? Or are they a collection of various spren from the Honor/Cultivation spectrum that have been corrupted by Odium?

And you’re right that they’re probably not connected, but the similarity just struck me. They acted similar. And Malata creeps me out, as do most of Taravangian’s people.

So who is ‘that other scribe’ that has been left in Kharbranth to run the place? She must be a Diagrammist as well.

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7 years ago

My thoughts in no specific order.

– Ialai is not a Ghostblood, but she is of interest to Mraize.

– Shallan is now distracted by news of Helaran, will people having argued he is still alive be right against all odds? I hope not.

– Adolin is convinced he will lose/ruin it. He fears Dalinar will be accused. When is he going to just talk? This is taking forever, especially without viewpoints to really know what is going on in his head.

– Ialai’s whitespine analogy was clearly meant at Adolin.

– Ialai clearly suspect Adolin: she thinks someone murdered her husband without direct order from the Highprince. She is right.

– Shallan was too distracted, Adolin is too emotionally compromised, neither have caught on the implications of Ialai’s accusations.

– Amaram is back. He is not a nice man. Will he find Adolin’s guilt? It’s probably going to turn into a Kaladin centric arc once he gets there.

– The supernatural theory seems to confirm itself: something is killing people and it is not human. The copycat being a ploy to uproot Sadeas’s murderer was very interesting, now the whole arc has been snatched away and turned into something else having no relation whatsoever to the initial event. It makes the former cliff-hanger kinda of moot.

– Kaladin’s story arc has gotten moderately more interesting with the spren talking to him.

– Will Kaladin’s affection for the Parshendies make him betray the Kholins? It seems highly probably at this point in time, but then again, we’ve been there before.

– Dustbringer! So finally we have one and no, it is NOT Adolin. I do not trust her.

– Nightwatcher’s magic is supposed to be permanent, the Nahel bond isn’t responsible for Dalinar recovering his memories. He does not remember what he asked for.

– Taravangian is acting dumb. Dalinar is too quick to trust him.

– Dalinar should not trust someone just because Gavilar trusted him.

– The world does not want to unite itself with Dalinar. I can’t blame the world.

– I want a Dalinar/Adolin scene. Soon.

– Where is Renarin?

– We are missing Adolin’s viewpoint: I want to know what he thinks above any other characters. Stuff happens every week, but at the same time, nothing really happens: status quo week after week. Taking away the downfall from murdering Sadeas from Adolin, giving it to Shallan and have it focus on Helaran/Mraize/Ghostbloods is exactly a denouement I feared would happen in OB. I guess I always knew this is how it would turn out, but I had entertained some small hope it wouldn’t be the case.

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Raven Princess
7 years ago

I think that Dalinar Remembered is a woman’s footnote.  There have been multiple instances where Shallan had spoken about commentary placed at the bottom of the page that was never meant to be read to a man, but shared by a woman.  Makes me think Navani wrote Oathbringer.

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7 years ago

“And when they were spoken of by the common folk, the Releasers claimed to be misjudged because of the dreadful nature of their power; and when they dealt with others, always were they firm in their claim that other epithets, notably “Dustbringers,” often heard in the common speech, were unacceptable substitutions, in particular for their similarity to the word “Voidbringers.” They did also exercise anger in great prejudice regarding it, though to many who speak, there was little difference between these two assemblies. 

— Words of Radiance
https://coppermind.net/wiki/Order_of_Dustbringers 

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Pagerunner
7 years ago

I assume the extra “Dalinar remembered – from Oathbringer, Preface” at the beginning of Chapter 24 is just a copy-paste error, I know there have been quite a few cropping up. But is it possible to get this one fixed? It’s causing quite a bit of confusion for some people, who think that “Dalinar remembered” is a part of the epigraph. Thanks.

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Anssi
7 years ago

That was definitely not the stupid Taravangian.

FarDareisMaiGrandma
7 years ago

Am I the only one who noticed that Dalinar worried that Malata might mot be a true radiant, but might have somehow gotten her hands on one of the other blades that (we know) are kept by the Shin? Clever Dalinar! If this is truly the case can Malata sense where the other blades are?  Could Dalinar’s hiding place for Szeth’s blade be in jeapardy?

OTOH, Malata could be exactly what King T says she is. After all we have been shown that KR’s have been appearing all over Roshar. 

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7 years ago

@1 I agree this Mraize parrot could be most definitely from First of the Son.

Loved the chapters, but that Mr. T will betray them all.

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StormLord
7 years ago

Mraize chicken could be the same kind that Darkness used on lift in Azir

Braid_Tug
7 years ago

@24:  Yes the double:

Dalinar remembered.

—­From­Oathbringer,­preface

Is a copy error.  It’s not in the read PDF.

 

I love the chicken.   But I don’t think it’s an Aviar from First of the Sun.   That world did not have a direct pool that world hoppers could travel to.  Plus, that story is set way into the Cosmere future.    So I think it’s just a pretty parrot, a good red herring.   But, I do not have direct confirmation from anyone near Brandon. 
At least, I don’t think it’s pool was one useful for travel.

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7 years ago

Here’s a thought – what if it was Evi who was writing Oathbringer? We don’t know enough about her to be certain (see: heretic, near-death experience, etc.) but it could fit

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7 years ago

@29 There is a perpendicularity on First of the Sun, but it’s… dangerous. Nobody has returned from Silverlight’s expeditions, which is why (I assume) they came from space in Sixth of the Dusk. Khriss talks about it a bit in Arcanum Unbounded. And as for it being in the future… Sixth of the Dusk takes place in the future, yes. But if Mraize somehow managed to hop to that perpendicularity, there were presumably aviar/worms there way before that story took place.

@28 The Larkin that Darkness used isn’t a type of chicken/parrot. It’s more like a large, winged cremling. Basically a larval form of (a particular, thought to be extinct) Greatshell.

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7 years ago

@29 what do you mean by “direct pool that world hoppers could travel to”.  Is there a place to read up on world hoppers?

Random thought..  Why have we not seen any of the intelligent spren talk to each other yet?  I started thinking that maybe they can’t but the KR room has pedestals for them next to their KR chairs.

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7 years ago

I look forward to hearing what Mraize knows about Helaran. I hope he knows what Helaran was up to all those years, what organization he was a member of, whether or not he was a surgebinder, and why he was sent to kill Amaram. Maybe he knows Kaladin killed him and wants to stir up trouble amongst the radiants (and how does Shallan not know it yet? Adolin knows and referred to it in this section). Or maybe the theory that Helaran is still alive is true, and Mraize knows where he is. 

I didn’t expect a voidspren to take the form a little woman of white golden light. I think I expected them to be red and mean. It sucks that she’s watching Kaladin and he and Syl can barely interact. I hope he can make a move soon and get to Kholinar or back to Urithiru. Travel storylines can get old quickly, especially if the character is traveling alone or with strangers.

I’m surprised Elhokar wasn’t at the meeting with Taravangian. They didn’t even mention Elhokar as a fellow monarch who supports Dalinar. I guess Dalinar is still considered the representative for Alethkar and Elhokar is just an afterthought.

I wonder if Taravangian is still planning to have Dalinar assassinated? I agree with others who say he was playing dumb here. I’m really worried about Dalinar’s safety… at least he can heal with stormlight now if he is stabbed or otherwise harmed in an assassination attempt.

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nerium
7 years ago

I’ve just read Arcanum Unbounded, despite having read the short stories before, and Khriss’ introduction to that world states that for some unknown reason, First of the Sun has perpendicularity, allowing for passage from the Cognitive realm into the Physical. And I assume the Aviar could have existed there even before the events in Sixth of the Dusk.

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7 years ago

 Calling it now–Dalinar is gonna regret wishing to have “memories of my wife” taken away. Since he, y’know, remarried.

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Melbu Frahma
7 years ago

Very good chapters!

Surprised to see a Releaser so soon – (Call them dustbringers at your peril). I had kind of anticipated that Jasnah might have been the shardbearer. I’m inclined to believe Malata is a Releaser or else she wouldn’t have insisted on the name.

Who is the yellow spren? and who is she bonded to – I assume she must be bonded to a proto-radiant to have manifested within the physical realm.

Kaladin’s parshmen companions resisted the everstorm by hiding in a mine. Clearly the yellow spren doesn’t want them to become void bringers. It will be interesting to know what the gathering is.

The Shard of RAFO finally resolves at least one issue – Dalinar’s returning memory is not a result of his nahel bond. This of course begs the question what is the cause then?

More questions than answers here.  Always a good thing!

I just wanted to thank Mr Sanderson and Tor for making these chapters available in this form. Their release  makes Tuesday afternoon (i’m on GMT) a highlight of my week. I can’t wait to buy the book in a month’s time!  Conversely, its a shame that this will end the joy of Tuesday afternoon and just mean a longer wait until book 4! 

 

 

 

 

 

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7 years ago

Adolin smarter than most Prince Charming types on display in his clash with Ialai. Though he’s still dueling outside his arena.

There’s something brewing in Urithiru, something sinister, something so unclean even Ghostbloods are concerned. Shallan is one of them even though she tries to deny it.

I wonder what the organization will do when Jasnah shows up again. Will Shallan tell her about her new association? She did promise never to lie to Jasnah. There will be issues either way. Juicy conflicts all around. Could Shallan be the bridge that brings Jasnah into the Ghostbloods or the weapon used to destroy them? Is it all hands on deck with the arrival of the Voidbringers or will everyone’s grievances provide fissures in the defense efforts too great to overcome without cataclysm. It seems reasonable that that this is the book where the reunion happens.

I don’t know about that Voidspren, but what came to mind for some reason is The Devil Wears Prada. Probably her walking on spikes reminded me of high heels or something. Call me wierd.

So Dalinar’s memory didn’t come back all at once huh. Interesting that now he isn’t sure at all what boon and curse was. 

Some of King T’s dullness is contrived. It has to be. He might not be particularly bright on this day but if he was as stupid as he seems here his tests wouldn’t have allowed him out of his room. I think he knows good and well what his reputation is in the rest of the world and is playing it for all it’s worth. After all, no one would ever think him capable of the betrayal we all know is coming because they underestimate him.

And we meet our first Dustbringer. Maybe? Can Voidspren make themselves into Shardblades capable of opening Oathgates? After all, spren are spren. Without Honor to regulate the process or a Bondsmith to sever an improper bonding, who can say whether a Voidspren of an appropriate level of complexity couldn’t see what Honor/Cultivationspren did and copy it in the same way those spren copied the Heralds and their Honorblades? Somebody needs to give us more information on the Recreance.

Lastly, if the Voidspren Kaladin spoke to isn’t yanking chain, maybe it’s possible for humans to become Voidbringers too.

Werechull
7 years ago

I’m enjoying the book so far, but there’s an odd lack of Voidbringer menace. I’m more worried about Ialai and Taravangian than the Voidbringer Champion, no matter how many shadows he has.

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7 years ago

Since Dalinar is only getting memories of the beginning, could it be a certain length of time? Although obviously that hasn’t been the case for others in the past. Which means…maybe Dalinar will still have a curse/boon, it’s just being replaced for some reason…by something else.

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7 years ago

Yet another round of good chapters! These ones have less character development and adorableness than the previous set, but a lot more information. 

Mraize and Amaram in Sadeas camp in Urithuru?! I’m glad there was quick clarification that Ialai and Mraize aren’t fully aligned. Also, we are reminded that the Ghostbloods are rather well informed of what goes on around them. I hope Shallan is careful; they are definitely trying to use her and bind her to their cause. 

Kaladin’s chapter was not so quick this time. The parshmen are still using his knowledge and skills, even with their righteous anger. That Voidspren was just menacing and secretive enough. And there are more of them guiding stragglers to the larger body? I’m curious to see where they end up, but part of me also wants Kaladin to bail while he still can…

Good ol Mr T. Is he playing Dalinar, or is he having a slow day while also playing Dalinar? Also, a Dustbringer! Our first sighting! I like that Dalinar was appropriately suspicious of her weirdness and questioned whether she had an honorblade right when the reader likely would as well. 

Also the epigraphs were rather helpful in addressing the authorship this time, don’t you think? (I’m assuming the ‘“Dalinar remembers” -FromOathbringer prelude’ bit at the beginning of the last was a typo/print error, right?)

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7 years ago

And what about these circles in the floor and ceilings where it looks like a pillar should be? Transporters? 

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Grendelkat
7 years ago

the voidspren talking to kaladin reminded me of the flamespren in one of the interludes. Maybe capturing it by recording it is relevant.. either how to make the parshmen voidbringers or to neutralize them?  I need to re-read that interlude now. 

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7 years ago

A lot going on here, wow.

Thoughts in no particular order:

Re: Dalinar’s curse: assuming his wish was for the “pain to be removed”, then to fulfill the request at the time she took his memories. But perhaps now the memories won’t cause him pain, so he can remember again. Meaning “missing memories” was not the curse — instead, maybe he’s cursed in some other way that he just doesn’t realize. Perhaps the curse part is yet to hit — in fact, remembering his past could put the “curse” in motion.

A bit convoluted I guess, but may be possible.

The Dustbringer: yeah I have a feeling she’s not a Radiant at all. But I guess we’ll see.

The voidspren: *sigh* at it appearing as female. I can only hope it’s trying to appear like Syl to put Kaladin off guard. Otherwise, I’m a bit disappointed at Sanderson for making spren into only two categories: weird inanimate objects (patterns, vines, etc), or women.

Steve-son-son-Charles
7 years ago

@20

A few weeks ago I kinda postulated the same questions wrt Odium’s Voidspren after the first time Kal runs into the freed Parshmen. 

I am starting to get the impression that Voidspren are actually spren somehow corrupted by Odium, and which might grant voidbringers different abilities based on the type of spend bonded (not saying the voidbringers have similar abilities to the KR, just that different corrupted spren might impact their bond / abilities).

My suspicions are that there are many different types / classes of voidbringers, which includes races too (listeners, humans, great shells… Etc..) based on their corrupted spren.

Also I am starting to wonder if corrupted spren might figure promenantly in the Recreance – was there a discovery of corrupted spren and, therefore, did the KR abandon their spen in fear of being corrupted themselves (like the Listeners were)?

Maybe this seems a little out there as theories go, but who knows (except BWS…). LOL

 Note: edited for some clarity.

 

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Dante's Shadow
7 years ago

@43 What was Jasnah’s spren described as?  Wasn’t he a little inky black man?

@37 Do we know that bondsmiths can sever bonds?

In any case, I love these Tuesday Releases.  Thank you TOR and Brandon for doing this!

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Whitespine
7 years ago

@@@@@ naupathia  43

Jasnah’s spren, Ivory, is a man-shaped spren.

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7 years ago

Ishar is the Bondsmith Herald. He said at the outset of Nahel bonds that he could and he would unless the spren agreed to a control measure, aka the Oaths.

Werechull
7 years ago

@@@@@43. naupathia ”I’m a bit disappointed at Sanderson for making spren into only two categories: weird inanimate objects (patterns, vines, etc), or women.”

Don’t forget the Stormfather. 

 

 

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7 years ago

Jasnah’s spren is a small man in a sharp black suit. His name is Ivory.

@44 I assume you mean a corrupted higher spren, not a high spren. High spren are a particular type of higher spren, similar to how Honorspren like Syl are.

@48 @43 Don’t forget Ivory, or Glys… OK, well we haven’t SEEN Glys, but it’s definitely a male.

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Kessler
7 years ago

Wait, isn’t that “Voidspren” a Cultivation Spren?

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7 years ago

@@@@@ 33

What is this “Helaran is alive” theory? His bond to his Shardblade was severed so he’s definitely dead. And it’s unlikely that anyone knows about Kaladin killing him. They would have had to have been one of Amaran’s men from the time that he enslaved Kaladin to have any sort of idea that the Kaladin now is the same person. Kaladin himself hasn’t told anyone.  

As for the Voidspren – I’m basically thinking of her as an evil Syl. 

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7 years ago

@50 Cultivation already has spren… Most of the Radiant spren are at least partly of Cultivation. Wyndle is, IIRC, the closest to being a pure Cultivation spren there is.

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7 years ago

Re: everyone pointing out Jasnah’s spren: yes I forgot Jasnah’s spren was shown. Still, though, a single “inky man” doesn’t really tip the scales vs the multitudes of spren we’ve seen. And for a voidspren I expected a lot more, and was hoping Sanderson could think of something more clever to show Kal than a woman in a dress, ie, an “evil” version of Syl. I guess Kal just has a thing for skirts — or attracts them, either way.

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Alatar
7 years ago

On Voidspren:

Remember Elantris, with Seons and Skazes, they seem pretty similar to sprens, and they’re confirmed to be Splinters of Devotion and Dominion. By the way, they also have a bond with their human “masters”, and they lose sentience when their “master” is taken by the Reod.

So, I think they’re Splinters (not all Splinters need to be from Splintered Shards, Returned are Splinters, for example). I think there’s even WoB on that, but I’m leaving and I can’t search for it. So, Voidspren is something “the good guys” call them, but they’re really just sprens who are from Odium. Probably painspren and fearspren are from Odium, just not higher spren like this one we see.

 

About making it female, well, it’s obvious that’s just related to the writer wanting to confront Kaladin with a similar experience, one with a “good” spren and the other with a “bad” one. Also, remember we’re in a world design specifically from epic manga, with the magic system as a excuse to have VERY BIG swords, bulky armors, and the sprens as the typical cartoon stars when shocked (remember last week with Evi’s brother shockspren?) and things like that, so it’s a very visual storytelling.

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Dan I
7 years ago

@35

 

Damn! I think you’ve got it. Dalinar wished for “memories of my wife” to be taken away. And Evi is no longer his wife…Navani is!

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7 years ago

Oh no! What if Dalinar’s boon was to have the memory of his wife removed, and now that he’s married to Navani he is starting to loose memories of her as he gains the memories of Evi?

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7 years ago

Hello to everyone! First time commenting here. 

I feel very worried about Taravangian. I think he was trying to lead Dalinar to the path of Warlord insted of Peacemaker. The Diagram said if Dalinar chose the peace he will become a threat for Taravangian’s goal to be king of all Roshar, and that was why he sent Szeth to kill Dalinar. He may be trying to avoid that now manipulating Dalinar. Is T. an idiot for real and trying so clumsily to achieve that or is he a smart one playing the idiot?

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7 years ago

@47 Correct me if I’m wrong here, but when Shallan is snooping around in the Monastery and meets Taln, he specifically calls her one of “Ishar’s Knights” after seeing her perform lightweaving.  I’ve always taken that to mean that Ishar is the patron Herald of the Lightweavers, not the Bondsmiths.

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7 years ago

@51: People have argued the man Kaladin killed was not Helaran, but some random Veden who “borrowed” Helaran’s Shards (obviously Helaran would have needed to break the bond with his Blade for this ploy to work). I think it comes from the idea Helaran is a Radiant due to Taravangian’s comment when he wondered who taught Shallan.

I have always hated the theory: the story needs no more dead/not-dead characters. It is why I was annoyed at Mraize bringing back the topic of Helaran as it will give fuel to those theories (and they very well could become true).

@56: I have heard this theory before. My problem with it is Dalinar never stopped being married to Evi. The fact he married Navani does not change his status towards his former wife.

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7 years ago

@@@@@ 51 Keyblazing. Kaladin told Dalinar the whole story about Amaram taking the shardblade. This led Dalinar to the whole plan of hiding a shardblade for Amaram to find, after bonding it himself. Dalinar accused Amaram of stealing Kaladin’s blade and made him apologize in front of all of Bridge Four, Adolin, and other guards. So people know, and I’m surprised Shallan hasn’t found out yet.

As for the Helaran is alive theory. It claims that Helaran gave his blade to another Veden man, who Kaladin killed. Helaran may have given his blade away because he became a Skybreaker, and thus could no longer wield a dead shardblade.

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7 years ago

@58 Ishar was the founder of the Knights Radiant. That’s what they mean. He was the one responsible for the oaths, to hold the Knights in line.

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7 years ago

Amaram as Ialai’s investigator! This is great and so much better than the theories we have been discussing during the previous weeks. What made him change his express intention from WoR to immediately approach Dalinar upon arrival. Did Ghostbloods attack him again? Is “Taln” doing poorly? Is his presence an extra reason for GB to closely watch Ialai?

And, confirmation that copy-cat murders are supernatural. Nice. Also, Adolin is very good at subtrefuge, whether intentionally or not. And Mraize… with a parrot?! Ah, of course it is an Aviar. What powers does it have, I wonder. And, of course, Mraize may have lied to Shallan re: Ialai, if it was convenient to him. At least, his task for her won’t cause any direct conflicts with her duties as a Radiant and her stance as somebody sympathetic to Kholins. 

Argh! Kaladin is doing the Voidspren’s work for her by sheltering the ex-parshmen from a highstorm. She is not what I expected. Curious, that she  found them a place to hide from the Everstorm as well, though.

I’d have  thought that the 6-th dahn would be too high a rank for a waystation-keeper? Isn’t this Shallan’s rank? I’d have expected one to be a rural lord or something. Kaladin’s choice may be upon him – I suspect that the guy and/or the woman who runs his correspondence is going to peek out and see the ex-parshmen. And  Voidspren will incite the ex-parshmen towards murder. Also, seriously, he needs to write to Dalinar ASAP.

Taravangian is definitely on the more “stupid” side of his spectrum, because he betrayed himself  with this:

“I do not think you and I are destined for such a glorious place. Men of blood and sorrow don’t get an ending like that, Dalinar Kholin.”

As far as anybody knows, Mr T had been nothing if not virtious and inoffensive, so this comparison should have seemed really odd. Ditto the immediately preceding conversation. Anyway, I am surprised that T didn’t share that he had been privy to Gavilar’s visions, in order to win Dalinar’s trust. He is, however, still trying to steer Dalinar towards conquest, as per the Diagram. And the scary thing is that Dalinar appears to be wavering.

I am very suspicious of his “Radiant” as well, but fortunately Dalinar is with me there. However, if they do have “Taln’s” Honorblade, then choice of the Dustbringer order for their impostor is a bit odd. Who is this woman? We didn’t see previously, did we? Shouldn’t Shallan or Renarin have been assigned to talk to this new “collegue”?

I no longer think that Tezim is Ishar – I know that the Heralds are mad, but this message was just too bombastic and counter-productive, IMHO.

 

 

 

 

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Some Guy In A Waistcoat
7 years ago

@43
Like others have said – Ivory, Stormfather, and Glys. The Cryptics are mostly man-shaped. 

Mind you, Syl has appeared as abstract forms as often as she’s chosen to appear as a woman – ribbons of light and swirling leaves are the two most common that come to mind. 

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koobot
7 years ago

Great chapters.  My additional thoughts (although the comments have already covered so much!):

– Love how Mrazie is written.  He’s not (overly) smug when he talks to Shallan, which makes his requests so compelling.

– It’s interesting watching Mrazie slowly encourage the growth of the identity Veil.  He’s got a great setup going here: get Shallan to do an important task to help her “earn” her place in the Ghostbloods.  After this task, tell her about Kaladin to push her away from the Radiants and even closer to the Ghostbloods.  This may mean more dissociations from Shallan, and a more solid identity for Veil.

– Alternatively, forgiving Kaladin may be the first step in Shallan learning to forgive herself… let’s hope this happens before Veil becomes the “primary” identity.

FenrirMoridin
7 years ago

@53 naupathia: It’s possibly the spren is fishing with the appearance, being similar yet distinct to how a windspren/Honorspren appears (when they do decide to be human-shaped since they go through abstract forms as well) to see if Kaladin is more than he seems.  I wouldn’t count on this being the voidspren’s true appearance for now (although personally I’m inclined to believe it’s at least close, the whole growing spikes to walk on part seemed distinctive).  

As for general reactions, wow, this set of 3 chapters sure aren’t good for our main characters, evil temptations abound.  Which is oddly comforting, at least one of them isn’t alone in that regard (although currently I’m most scared for Kaladin, at least renewed Stormlight means he should be able to nope out if he needs to).  Knowing Taravangian’s situation makes it really hard to judge him at any time: a lot of the evidence for him seeming compassionate could just be the acting of a cunning man.  I get the feeling he might not be as locked into one set intelligence per day as he thinks he is though – in Words of Radiance Adrotagia even comments how sometimes it’s hard to judge his intelligence, even if King T dismisses it in his head as sometimes receiving “echoes” of the Diagram day.  Not to mention it’s possible something is going funky with the Nightwatcher stuff in general, since Stormface claims the bond isn’t what’s causing the change and it isn’t just Dalinar who might be having his boon/bane altered if Edgedancer was any indication.

Oh, for anyone wondering why Shallan doesn’t know that Kaladin was the one who killed Helaran yet…
Well for one thing, it’s Shallan, mistress of forgetting stuff when it’s convenient for her and also when it’s inconvenient for her.  Secondly, just last Shallan chapter before this set we saw that she was barely interacting with her own guards, let alone Bridge 4, so why would she have immediately heard about how Kaladin killed a Veden Shardbearer in the course of saving Amaram?  Sure she’d be interested, except since Dalinar’s grand reveal of Amaram’s true character, pretty much all our heroes have been in a constant state of having too much on their mind – so Amaram gets to slip away.
Sure it’s also being used as a narrative device, but I don’t think it’s that weird Shallan hasn’t pieced it together yet, at least not knowingly.

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7 years ago

@35 Do we have confirmation that Dalinar is losing memories of Navani now? I can’t recall reading that.

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7 years ago

I agree that Mraize knows that Kaladin killed Helaran and has a plan to drive a wedge between Shallan and the others.

I think that Taravangian and his people purposefully brought Taravangian on one of his low-regular and more compassionate days to elicit sympathy and make themselves appear non-threatening.  He’s not so low that he really needs to look at Adrotagia for confirmation every second–I think that was planned as well–but more like the regular day when Szeth returned and he met the king of Jah Kaved.  Taravangian is still smart and capable of deception on those days, and I don’t think smart Taravangian can fake sympathy and compassion very well.   He’s still “dumb” enough on those smart days to think people would accept breeding based on intelligence.  They let him work the diagram itself, but not be around people on those days either. 

I think a power-mad Ishar who has been playing Nalan to kill Radiants for him makes sense.  We’ve had a comment from Mraize (overheard by Shallan hiding under her boulder illusion) that he doesn’t think the Tukar king is human either.  I trust the world-hoppers to have a better sense of perspective to judge things like that.  I actively like this because I want the Radiants to become more open and active so people can start figuring out what is true and not true about Roshar and Vorin church history.

Finally, I don’t have the Arcanum Unbounded with me, so I can’t remember the exact wording of the “danger” of the perpendicularity on First of the Sun.  But couldn’t it just be that the scholarly world-hoppers Khriss knows pop out and are immediately killed by mind-reading predators when they venture out of the vicinity of the pool? And the deadly Mraize and what’s-her-name the babsk used their cunning to figure out how to survive and learned from the natives (ancestors of those in the story) to bond Aviar…

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7 years ago

@60 – My memory may be wrong, but I don’t think Kal told Dalinar the ‘whole’ story.  I thought it was just that Amaram killed the soldiers and branded Kal to be able to keep the blade.  Did Kal actually tell Dalinar that he killed the shardholder?

Hasn’t Shallan seen a parrot before?  Wasn’t there one at the festival she went to where she first met Hoid?

I like the idea of the Tezim as a Herald.  The description certainly fits.  And he would certainly be able to inspire crazy followers/soldiers that Navani indicates.

It seems to me that Mr. T is having an average or slightly less than average day, playing the fool, but he let too many things slip that a smart version wouldn’t.  

Have we ever been told or seen what the Ghostbloods’ goals are?  Along with that, can we really take Mraize’s word at things, like that Ialai isn’t a member?  

 

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7 years ago

@68 Yeah, she’s seen a parrot before. They’re found in Shinovar, so rare but not unheard of. But Mraize having one seems a little more than just a normal parrot.

 

@67 Yeah, that is the danger as far as I understood it. I would think Mraize and Iyatil are more than capable of getting past those predators.

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7 years ago

 @66 No, but given how this process appears to be a gradual one, if this really is the result a badly-phrased wish it wouldn’t surprise me if he hits a point later in the book where he remembers Evi and starts fuzzing on Navi.

Then to get his attention she’ll have to start yelling “Hey, Listen!” but that’s another curse.

 

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7 years ago

@68 lidolas. I went back to double check about Kaladin telling Dalinar the whole truth about Amaram, and he did in WOR Chapter 22:

“It wasn’t that, sir,” Kaladin said, meeting Dalinar’s eyes by spherelight. “I know where Amaram got his Shardblade. I was there. I killed the Shardbearer carrying it.”

“That can’t be the case,” Dalinar said slowly. “If you had, you’d hold the Plate and Blade.”

“Amaram took it for himself, then slaughtered everyone who knew the truth,” Kaladin said. “Everyone but a lone soldier who, in his guilt, Amaram branded a slave and sold rather than murdering.”

Then later in Chapter 76, Dalinar confronts Amaram in front of Bridge Four and Adolin:

“What of his claim that you took your Blade and Plate from him?” Dalinar asked.

So people know, and I’m surprised word hasn’t spread. Though I can see Shallan not interacting with the general masses of Urithiru, so it’s feasible she hasn’t heard about it, and Adolin hasn’t mentioned it.

 

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Dryone
7 years ago

Do we know where the 3rd honor blade is, yet?

One was with Taln, one was with Szeth, and a third one was probably given to an earlier truthless. IIRC at one point Seth thinks about Kaladin that he has one of the other seven honor blades. My guess is, Malata was given the third one by Mister T.

I don’t think Tezim is a Herald: he call’s himself Herald of Heralds, bearer of the Oathpact and at the same time the only Radiant. And he uses a new name. I think he’s just a madman.

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7 years ago

@71 Artemis – Thank you for looking that up.  That does make it more surprising that Shallan hasn’t heard or put it together. She doesn’t exactly hang out with the bridgemen, but it seems that kind of information would be all over the warcamps.

Braid_Tug
7 years ago

@53:

And for a voidspren I expected a lot more, and was hoping Sanderson could think of something more clever to show Kal than a woman in a dress, ie, an “evil” version of Syl. I guess Kal just has a thing for skirts — or attracts them, either way.

Wow.   The worst part about this comment, to me, is that you don’t even see how rude of a statement it is. To Sanderson, about Kaladin, and about women in general.

 

You are looking for male Spren, then are forgetting the ones that have been talked about. Pattern in Shadesmar, is a human male figure with a fractal head.

And others have pointed out the ones you also seemed to have forgotten.

dwcole
7 years ago

@53 or perhaps like many you are just to prone to see sexism where it doesn’t exist?  

 @54 – wait so BS is basically writing anime?  Do we have confirmation of this somewhere?  BS liking anime would be … .. all kinds of awesome I would love for someone to ask him about ghost in the shell or Hanibai Renmei (which yes I likely misspelled) 

Great chapters and forget the number and don’t have time to go back and find it but great call on the will regret asking for having his memories of his wife removed because he is now remarried.  But eh seems a little too wish bringer (or what ever the children’s story with the be careful what you wish for plot was) ah well.  

Overall great stuff loving the slow build up of menace and mystery.  Keep it up BS!

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7 years ago

Interesting that Mraize is posing as a soldier of the Sadeas household.  This comment is made right after Shallan sees the chicken on Mraize’s shoulder.  Could Shallan be wrong and that bird be a larkin?

Ok.  I was wrong.  Ialai is not a Ghostblood; nor was Sadeas.  Assuming, of course, Mraize is not lying.

I like Mraize’s quote about morality. (“Morality is as ephemeral as the changing weather.  It depends upon the angle from which you view it.”).  In addition to having this view of morality demonstrated in Shallan’s work as Veil, Shallan will also see it as a KR.  Each Order has its own take on morality (and, I would guess, to a lesser extent, among members of each Order).  I also cannot believe that Shallan would have expected anything less than Mraize learning about her use of the Ghostblood’s symbol.

BTW, I hope we get to see an illustration of the Ghostblood’s symbol in OB.  Beta readers.  During your review, did you see the illustrations?

Would not it be ironic if Helaran was a Ghostblood?  I wonder if Mraize knows that Shallan knows that Heralan is dead.

I am sure that Mraize has some powers (i.e. can Invest) in some realm.  He may not be able to Invest on Roshar.  But how else could he sense the evil in Urithiru?  Learing more of the different groups’ goals (Ghostbloods, Diagramists, Sons of Honor, and others) will be almost as interesting as seeing the KRs progress toward complete KRness.

Speaking of irony, Ialai just hit a bulleye.  Sadeas’ killer was a member of Kholin’s army (family, for that matter) who thought that Sadeas’ killing was a service to Adolin.  Adolin implied as much to Sadeas before he rammed his knife into Sadeas’ eye.

Interesting.  The spren following the transformed Parshmen gave them warning about the Everstorm.  I guess that that spren does not want them to change further – into voidbringers.  I would like to have read that scene; where the spren gave the warning.

Maybe I am wrong.  I have assumed that the spren following the Parshmen was a voidspren?  Perhaps it is another type of spren who in the past bonded with another KR Order.  This time, instead of trying to bond humans, they may be trying to bond Parshmen who were removed of their slaveform.  That would be an interesting strategy for the spren?

I am sure there is some significance to the fact that the spren looked like Shin.  More importantly, I think there is a significance to her color yellow – I thought that one of the KR Orders was associated with yellow.  IIRC, Windrunners are associated with blue.  Does anybody know which Order is associated with yellow?

So.  King T. does have a KR.  I wonder if she is truly on King T’s side (and the Diagram) or if she will show her allegiance to Dalinar and the other KRs.  From a literary perspective, I hope she is aligned with King T.  It makes the story more interesting if all new KRs are not on the same page and have different goals.  Real life is not always simple that everybody who needs to will come to the “right” side.

Malata is allegedly a Releaser.  I wonder how may Oaths she has spoken.  Probably at least 3 if she can summon a Sprenblade. 

According to the Stormfather, the Nahel bond has nothing to do with Dalinar regaining his memories.  Perhaps some commentators are correct.  He is starting to remember Evi because he has now married Navani.  If he starts to lose memories of Navani, that becomes a very viable theory.  Alternatively, part of the boon/curse was at some point (depending upon the occurrence of certain events), Dalinar’s memories of Evi would return.

Here is my theory.  So long as Dalinar was unhappy, he could not have memories of Evi.  But his marriage to Navani caused such a level of happiness as to allow him to now remember Evi.  Maybe there is something to my theory.  Dalinar just said that he asked to have his pain taken away.  If he no longer has the pain (because of marriage to his one true love), then maybe the memories can return.  If it was tied to his pain – not the loss of Evi.

Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren

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7 years ago

@76 A larkin is not a bird of any kind, it’s more like a flying cremling. It wouldn’t stand out nearly as much as a “chicken”.

Werechull
7 years ago

How can Mraize sneak around/maintain a disguise as a Sadeas soldier when he has a uniquely disfigured face and goes around with a “chicken” on his shoulder. You’d think everyone would have heard about him by now.

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andtheking
7 years ago

do we have confirmation that Mraize  is a world hopper? I don’t remember reading that but could have missed it.

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7 years ago

We have confirmation that Mraize’s babsk, Iyatil, is from the southern continent of Scadrial. No confirmation (that I know of) that Mraize is, except that he has a collection of objects from all around the Cosmere.

It’s possible he’s a worldhopper who originated on Roshar though. Or he could have been from somewhere else. Or he works for a worldhopper, who got him some stuff, but he hasn’t worldhopped himself.

 

EDIT: Found a WoB. He IS a worldhopper.

Is Mraize a worldhopper?
BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED)

Yes, he’s been to a few planets, highly supervised by his babsk.

 

So my other point, that we don’t know where Mraize is from, stands. He might  be from Roshar originally, but might not. 

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7 years ago

@74: I did not pay much attention to @51’s comment, but it has been brought to my mind, I find it interesting the Voidspren chose to appearance of a woman looking slightly like Syl. Bearing the controversy within the original posting, I would think this was entirely deliberate.

Kaladin now struck me as the man having two conscience: one which is Syl telling him to take his stormlight and fly back to Urithiru, the other being evil-Syl telling him to stay and fight for what appears is a just cause.

I say, there are more to those Parshendis than it appears upon first glance. Odium is a force of evil able to manipulate people’s feelings and use them to turn them to his cause. Everyone always assumed “evil feelings” were the ones Odium would be attracted too, feelings such as hate and anger, actions such as murder, but what if everyone got it wrong? Anger hardly is the only emotion Odium can prey on, especially since it may be hard to control…

How about blind compassion towards the misfits and the slaves of this world?

My thoughts are the Voidspren is trying to manipulate Kaladin, using his natural sympathy towards those he perceives as “victims”, using his natural distrusts for the ruling class, to steer him away from the side he ought to be fighting on.

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7 years ago

Another great set of chapters this week.

First, we have Dalinar with memories of his wife Evi coming back in bits and pieces. In Edgedancer, Lift complains that her boon from the Nightwatcher is fading and she is changing. Lift is a pretty unreliable narrator so we can’t take her words at face value. Neither Dalinar or Lift fully understand what is going on with their boon/curse but I’m curious as to whether this is happening with King T as well. I don’t think he is playing dumb in the chapter. I think it’s truly a slow day for him. But will he continue to have “smart” days and “dumb” days? Maybe the Everstorms are slowly negating the Old Magic.

Adolin/Shallan/Kaladin are going to have an epic “talk” at some point in the future and I can’t wait to read it.

I like the Releaser. I’m looking forward to her display of powers.

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7 years ago

Awesome! I’ve been wanting to see a dustbringer since the WoK preface. Make her do something cool please! 😜

ChocolateRob
7 years ago

@68 It was when Kaladin was talking to Shallan that he was vague on the details and did not actually state that he killed the Shardbearer.

as Artemis pointed out Dalinar had a fuller (though still incomplete) version.

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7 years ago

@81 I think it’s dangerous to assume that Odium is a “force of evil”. Certainly he’s done evil things, but by definition he’s a force of hatred. Odium isn’t necessarily evil. Since compassion is kind of the opposite of hatred, I’m not sure how much he could really use that. Possible though; it depends on how much Rayse can stray from his Intent these days.

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7 years ago

@81 If they do an angel and devil on the shoulder routine, I might die laughing.

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7 years ago

@81/86 – Sanderson has almost literally placed an angel and a devil on Kaladin’s shoulders. But in this case we are sympathetic to the devil’s side as well as the angels. Classic Sanderson.

From what I’ve gathered about the Listeners I pity them. They seemed to have been forced into an alliance with Voidspren long ago after Men took over their homeland. I hope Kaladin, or Dalinar, (or anyone really, I’m not picky) can find a way to destroy Odium’s champion and release the Listeners from their connection with the Voidspren. Without them becoming slaves again, of course. That bit about being trapped in your own mind from the previous chapters was unsettling. 

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7 years ago

Just a thanks to tor and Sanderson for these pre-release chapters – such a generous contribution to the fans and great way to build even more anticipation for the release of the book! 

Really enjoying the way the story is heading with the parshendi – not the good vs evil trope. Looking forward to where this is going :)

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Adam Canning
7 years ago

@49 Isn’t Glys a set of glowing lights like Ym’s Spren?

I’m becoming more suspicious this is a Willshaper or Dustbringer Spren like the glowing comet that was following Eshonai around until she went Stormform.

Or the plot has like Big One gone so far off the expected rails it’s in another universe.

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7 years ago

@@@@@ 33 Artemis
You’re right, no mention of Elhokar again. And if he was healthy enough a few weeks ago to attend the wedding, and announce Dalinar as High King, he must be well enough by now to meet another monarch. Though maybe he believes Urithiru now falls outside of his authority, and he’s letting Dalinar do his uniting thing, while he is busy with matters in Alethkar?

@@@@@ 59 Gepeto
I think we won’t know for sure until we get to that point in the book, but maybe it’s about who Dalinar thinks of as his wife. He seems to spend a lot of time being amazed about the fact that Navani is now his wife.

@@@@@ 62 Isilel
Brandon Sanderson answered a few questions about the various lighteyed ranks on Reddit a while ago. It turns out that 6th dahn is the cut off point for all the ‘landed’ lighteyes. So if you have even a little land, it doesn’t matter that it’s a waypoint and a stormbunker in the middle of nowhere, you’re sixth dahn.

About the voidspren, she probably knows Kaladin is up to something. I don’t think she knows he’s a knight radiant yet though. So she might want to lure him over through Odium’s side, and picked a form the figured he could identify with.

Interestingly, in-story, she’s set up as completely the opposite of Syl in various ways, with Odium-yellow versus Honor-blue, always connected to the ground versus Syl’s flying. Even her sense of humor is more malicious. She knows where they’re going, but doesn’t want to say. This can be compared to Syl’s unpretending joy at discovering the world early in the Way of Kings.

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7 years ago

85. dendrophobe – On Odium possibly not being a “force of evil”.

I agree and we don’t really know how Odium works.  I am wondering if the ultimate goal of Odium is for people to freely choose Hate .. sort of the way a God of Love would work. For it to really mean something and be powerful, Love must be chosen freely.  Could this be the way the Odium works also?  He is setting up the Parshmen and Alethi to freely choose to Hate each other.

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Percula1869
7 years ago

Ugh, when are we going to get Hoid and Jasnah having conversations? I think I’ve been looking forward to that more than anything else. 

Still great chapters though. I spend all week just waiting for Tuesday. I just wish 3 chapters didn’t go by so fast. 

And one thing to clear up I’ve seen a few people mention. Mraize does not have a larkin. Larkins look nothing like “chickens”. More like cremlings, and the silver eyes would stand out. Plus it is stated that Mraize’s “chicken” has green feathers. Larkin are not green. 

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7 years ago

@@@@@ 56 – I’m worried that this is true!

Either that, or now that time has passed and he is happily with Navani, the memories of Evi may simply not be a source of pain anymore and therefore they can’t be taken away any longer.

The parrot is definitely an Aviar. Afterall, Mraize has that collection of items from all the other worlds.

I wonder if there are 10 types of odium-spren, capable of bonding?

I think the yellow spren may be bonded to the listener child. Isn’t it a bond that grants the spren sentience in the physical realm?

 

 

 

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7 years ago

Odium is Divine Hatred/Wrath. Ruin was Entropy and destruction. Preservation was about maintaining things.

Both the latter, when they fell to their Intents, were focused on maximizing those Intents. Keep things utterly static; blow up everything and crumble it to dust, then spread the dust apart.

Odium would probably seek to maximize hatred and spite. So I could totally see him restoring the Parshmen but not turning them into mad Stormform soldiers yet–he wants them to feel the slightest, most nanoscopic bit of the hatred he feels to bring them to his side. He’s basically AM, only with some restrictions placed on him.

All that being said, Leras/Preservation was so fallen to his Intent that he couldn’t bring himself to remotely hurt or damage something/someone to preserve the greater good. Granted, he was mostly dead at the time so that probably impaired his free will, but it could make it amazingly difficult for Odium to do any act of compassion or kindness, even to spread hatred. He probably sees the act as not a healing one, but a curse to open their eyes and realize the pain and horrors they’ve been experiencing through their fog for their entire lives.

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Percula1869
7 years ago

Also, could Mraize’s bird be an Aviar from First of the Sun? It’s possible but unlikely. We know FotS has a perpendicularity, however it is extremely dangerous. No one known has survived the trip. However we don’t know how powerful Mraize is. He is a worldhopper and been to quite a few worlds. It’s entirely possible he is packing one or more forms of investiture and could have survived the trip. Or maybe he killed and stole the bird from someone else who did. Either way, if that is the case, I wonder what ability the aviar is imparting to him?

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7 years ago

I missed this my first time reading these chapters.

“Behind him, the end of a rope blew in the wind, smacking a pile of wood again and again. A pair of windspren danced past, in the shapes of little people.”

I thought windspren were shaped like ribbons of light without form.  Any chance that while Syl is ignoring Kal, she’s trying to create her own children?  Or is there another Windrunner or two running around Urithiru?

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Theorycrafter
7 years ago

Theory time!

Alright, so there’s been a bunch of speculation about Dalinar’s Boon/Curse and how it’s “wearing off”. But what if it’s not wearing off? What if his boon/curse was timed? Think about this:

Dalinar is distraught at the death of Evi (we all have theories why, but we’ll know by the end of this book), and so he goes to the Nightwatcher. In his distress (and not exactly thinking straight – as Navani puts it) he asks to be happy again. To not feel the crushing guilt or despair that the event is causing him. Dalinar himself even says: “He had always remembered the difficult years following Evi’s death, which had culminated in his being drunk and useless…” So we know that whatever the event, it was bad. Even while not remembering the actual thing, it pushed him towards drinking. We also have Teleb’s (name/spelling?) statement at Dalinar & Navani’s wedding about how he still remembers that event and how it pushed him to give up being a soldier. It’s gotta be bad, but I digress.

Dalinar goes to the Nightwatcher, asks for a boon to help him get away from all of these emotions. The Nightwatcher removes his memory of Evi and everything to do with her. But what’s the curse? Dalinar admits now that he is unsure of what the actual events of his Nightwatcher adventure are. So he doesn’t know for sure. So what if the curse is that EVENTUALLY the memories will come back? What if the very act of him marrying Navani and finding his true love/happiness is the catalyst to his curse finally taking effect? Now that he has the love of his life, the dark memories of his past will come back to haunt him. Kind of a “get happiness now, pay for it with interest later” kind of thing.

Of course, those are just my thoughts. And this whole thing could be blown out of the water if Lift’s boon/curse is being removed too. Or it could have something to do with being in the holy city of the radiant’s and the dark “presence” that lives there. But I guess that’s how theories go.

 

(Completely off the wall: what if the dark presence is Odium? Perhaps there’s a world hopping mechanism similar to the Well of Ascension that allows one to travel to Braize and vice/versa. We know Odium is (was?) trapped so… what if Urithiru is his way of “entering” Roshar?)

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Paliah
7 years ago

While he isn’t my first guess, I’m beginning to wonder if Adolin is the author of Oathbringer. Something about the juxtaposition of the epigraphs and the chapter content seems to suggest it. 

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Arthur
7 years ago

it is not at all clear to me that these “voidspren” or even the “voidbringers” are actually what Jasnah and Shallan were looking for. Eshonai and friends bringing the Everstorm were clearly the product of voidspren. And the storm did wake the parshmen. But this yellow spren could just be another spren like Syl. Not evil, and not of Odium, just different, maybe associated with one of the other orders of radiants. We’ve never quite had a clear explanation of what Tanavast’s command to “Unite them” means. Perhaps it’s referring not to Roshar, but to the orders. They seem rather disunited at the moment.

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7 years ago

I instantly jumped to aviar with Mraize’s bird. Love the worldhopping stuff! And cool! I tagged the hunny!

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7 years ago

Argghhhh.  Each week raises so many more questions.  I’m glad we got a bit of interaction between Kaladin and the mystery spren.  Break is over, so more thoughts later

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7 years ago

I find it interesting that Mraize clearly refers to the Parshendi as “listeners” (see below). Who else, other than the Parshendi themselves, know that this is the term the Parshendi use for themselves?

“No,” he said, eyes narrowing. “She and her husband were too wild a variable for us to invite. Their motives are their own; I don’t think they align to those of anyone else, human or listener.”

Taravangian (whether acting or not) appears to be less intelligent in this chapter than he did in any of his interactions with Jasnah and/or Shallan in WoK. It seems that if either Jasnah or Shallan were to see him acting like he did in this chapter that they would be quick to notice the discrepancy in his outward intelligence. It seems likely that Shallan would soon interact with T due to her position of prominence as a KR in Urithiru. Will Taravangian resume his previous level of intelligence? If so, will Dalinar take note? Or will be continue with this level of ‘simple-ness’. If the latter, will Shallan simply dismiss it as aging?

Jasnah, on the other hand, seems to have greater respect for Taravangian’s intelligence and even went so far as to admonish Shallan against insulting his intelligence after their lunch together in the Palanaeum. It occurs to me that she’d see right through this act. Man…I can’t WAIT for her to show up! 

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nerium
7 years ago

I’m now thinking that Malata might actually be Liss, the assassin in Jasnah’s employ. They have a very similar demeanor, and then there’s the shardblade matter.

Also, how did the Voidspren manage to transfer from the Cognitive realm seemingly without major trauma?

 

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Leilatha
7 years ago

My first thought about Mraize’s info about Helaran: “wow, those conspiracists were right! Helaran IS alive!”

Second thought: “or maybe he just knows that Amaram stole the blade that was rightfully Kaladin’s, and made the connection that Kaladin is the one that killed Helaran…That’s not good.”

I wonder which kind of Avian Mraize has…

Definitely thinking that Jasnah isn’t the author, definitely leaning towards old Sunmaker. 

Weird that the voidspren looks so much like Syl. Maybe they have ten different types that correlate to the ten types of radiant spren? 

If it will only take Kaladin a day to get back to the shattered planes, I guess his adventure with Elhokar will happen sooner than expected.

Yay a dustbringer! I’m excited to see her in action!

Also Dalinar’s dilemma on whether to invite all of Roshar by force seems interesting, because attacking would-be allies seems like “dividing” more than “uniting”, even if the goal IS unity, it’s still a divisive action. Hopefully his third oath will give him more guidance and direction.

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7 years ago

Re: Dalinar’s wish and his returning memories –

If Dalinar wished to have “the pain” removed by the Nightwatcher, then I would suggest the new pain fabrial that Navani gave him (attached to the brace that houses his watch) could be the culprit for his memories returning. 

If fabrials are patterned after/use the Old Magic, and the Nightwatcher also uses the Old Magic, then it’s possible that the pain fabrial is providing some type of interference with the Nightwatcher’s “boon” delivered via the same magic system.  So, if Dalinar’s pain/pain removal is linked to the memory of his wife, then maybe the fabrial’s removal of his pain is disrupting that link and the memories are starting to resurface. 

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Jake Eddy
7 years ago

Am I the only person who thought the new radiant could be Jasnah in disguise? 

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Yash Mody
7 years ago

I do have a theory on Dalinar’s memories coming back. Let’s just assume that he did ask for his pain to be taken away, and his memories were actually taken away. But what if the nature of his pain is changing? What if, after marrying Navani, Evi’s memories no longer pain him? Then their coming back would make more sense, as taking them is no longer analogous to taking away his pain. Rather, something else will go.

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Crim
7 years ago

– Halaran has to be dead.  His bonded shard blade dropped when Kaladin killed him.  I didn’t know there was a theory he may be alive.  

-If Dalinar’s memories aren’t returning because of the bond, it must be because of his new marriage.  I don’t know why but that’s what the timeline would suggest.  

 

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7 years ago

Powerful moral conundrum for Dalinar! Forcibly uniting Roshar as terrible but also possibly necessary.

I wish he and Taravangian just came completely clean to each other about their goals!

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justcanthelpmyself
7 years ago

Anyone feel very strongly that Tezim isn’t Ishar?  I’d be willing to bet if anyone is interested, aha :) (I don’t actually know anything obviously – just feel it is VERY likely). 

Also, while at first I didn’t quite buy that Mraize wasn’t in league (at least to some extent) with Ialai – now I believe he is telling the truth. After Ialai’s revelation that Amaram is her investigator; I think we can be pretty confident Amaram isn’t on team Ghostbloods so it would make sense they are watching the Sons of Honor closely.

newish
7 years ago

Here’s a random thought inspired by the “devil and angel” comments referring to Syl and the voidspren. Assuming that Kaladin will be the Champion that fights Odium’s champion, what if Kaladin gets to have multiple spren? I’m also assuming the “nine shadows” of the enemy champion has some sort of significance. What if Kaladin eventually gets nine or ten spren, allowing him access to the full range of KR abilities? Or even just one extra spren?

Some people are questioning whether or not the voidspren is actually a voidspren. I think we may actually be looking at two separate spren. Syl refers to the voidspren leading the parshmen as a male, yet the spren that appears to Kaladin is a female. I suppose it’s possible for the spren to change their apparent sex, but I don’t recall seeing any examples of that so far. It’s also possible that the voidspren initially leading the group left to go gather other parshmen and this female version arrived with one of the new groups mentioned in today’s chapter. However, the chapter also said that those voidspren also immediately departed upon leaving their charges. The female “voidspren” also never explicitly refers to herself as a voidspren. Anyway, this could all just be a random small continuity error, but it stuck out to me. 

From Oathbringer Chapter 17 (references to male voidspren underlined):

“It’s not that,” she said, speaking in a furious whisper. “I think parshmen might be able to see me. Some, at least. And that other spren is still here too. A higher spren, like me.”

“Where?” Kaladin asked, twisting.

He’s invisible to you,” Syl said, becoming a group of leaves and blowing around him. “I think I’ve fooled him into thinking I’m just a windspren.

She zipped away, leaving a dozen unanswered questions on Kaladin’s lips. Storms… is that spren how they know where to go?

The column started again, and Kaladin walked for a good hour in silence before Syl next decided to come back to him. She landed on his shoulder, becoming the image of a young woman in her whimsical skirt. “He’s gone ahead for a little bit,” she said. “And the parshmen aren’t looking.”

 

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Preston
7 years ago

Adolin is writing it. My bet at least. 

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7 years ago

Malata can be
– Truly a radiant, working with Diagram / independent of Diagram / unaware of Diagram – Any of these is possible
– Jasnah in disguise – Possible, but has holes. How does she disguise, why go as Dustbringer when she doesn’t have any of those powers
– A herald in disguise – Possible, but the main hole is that I think heralds are not allowed to hold their honorblades lest it calls Odium. Also, I don’t know if they still have their surges when they abandoned their blades.
– Honorblade wielder, working with Diagram / independent of Diagram / unaware of Diagram – Possible

Chicken can be

– Aviar – Likely

– Shin bird – Possible

– Aimian – Less likely

God-king Tezim can be,
– Really a herald – Possible

– Common man – Possble
– Honorblade wielder (human or other) – Less likely

Evi’s memories coming back

– Effect of bond unknown to Stormfather (unlikely)

– Effect of second marriage – unlikely

– Effect of painrial-watch – possible. Mentions of memories are always preceded/followed by mentions of the painrial. It could be intentional misleading but I think not. Mistborn SPOILER – Remember how each mention of Vin’s copper cloud piercing was preceded or followed by her earring.

– Effect of change in perception/mindset of Dalinar – possible

 

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7 years ago

So this new spren that Kal meets glows yellow like a flame.  Would it be too simple to say that it’s probably the higher spren cousin to flamespren in the same way that Syl is the higher spren cousin to windspren?

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Whitespine
7 years ago

@113

Another possibility for the ‘chicken’ is that it is from the planet of Warbreaker (Nalthis?). Tonk Fah had a parrot at one point; people seem to think Shallan’s description is of a parrot; and there are obviously crossovers from that world already.

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7 years ago

Theories about the Yellow spren. A lot is unknown here.

– Voidspren – Mostly likely, however nature of Voidspren itself is up to speculation. They could be splinters of honor/cultivation corrupted by Odium or really splinters of Odium.

– A normal (non-void) spren – Maybe these spren are bonding Listeners instead of humans (either this time or always). Maybe all native Rosharan creatures have a spren of their own and this one is the non-void spren related to non-void forms such as workform, mateform etc. It may be following orders from the voidspren leaders (such as stormform spren)

– A wild theory – It is Syl in disguise trying to figure out why Kaladin is following the Parshmen or to check if he has any moral doubts.

– Another interesting bit – Yellow stone spikes sprouted from ground as the yellow spren walked. Foreshadowing of what is to come?

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7 years ago

I’m thinking Dalinar’s memories came back because the pain from them is gone now that he’s moved on completely marrying Navani. 

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Wanted to comment before I waded into the comments (I have to get some work done today).

Sorry if there is duplication, but holy crap this is so good. I actually have started taking notes in my sketchbook while I reread/re-listen to everything Storm Light Archive related.

Shallan chapter:
Big brother Mraize introducing “Little Knife” to his Nietzschean world view, beyond good and evil, explaining the motives of the Ghostbloods, to harness the power of the godspren. Ah, foolish mortal. Interesting that there is a known evil presence in Urithuru, and that (as speculation has been going) it might indeed be responsible for the copy cat murders. Interesting, interesting (more in the speculation section).

Kaladin chapter:
The spren has eyes that look like Shin eyes. More on this later in the speculation section…Very interesting.

Dalinar chapter:

First glimpse at a possible new order of Radiant, a smirker aligned with Mr. T, not a good sign.
The research into the boon/curse of the Nightwatcher showing that it should last a whole lifetime and not dispel…and that this not caused by the bond to the stormfather…What does this mean for Mr. T?

SPECULATION SECTION:

I think this was a big reveal, the fact the spren leading the Parshendi looked like Syl but also had Shin eyes, and that Kaladin has seen a Spren like this one before. A lot of moving pieces seem to fit together with this simple revelation. Where might Kaladin have seen another spren like this? Perhaps Renarin’s spren during the duel with Adolin for the shards? Also, why is Shinovar such a different land, I think that it is because it is one of the primary points of Investiture for Cultivation, I think that there may be more spread out on Roshar, possibly Aimia, the purelake, and the reshi islands. Also, in the diagram of the 10 orders of knights radiant comment image, posted by Moogle on the 17th Shard), the Truthwatchers are one of the two eyes of God, the bondsmiths being the other). My guess is that the Truthwatchers are the most closely aligned with cultivation (they have confirmed ability to see the future (a power noted many times throughout the series that Cultivation was always better at than Honor), so just as the Bondsmiths are extensions of the extreme ideal of Honor, Truthwatchers are also most likely the most unalloyed extension of the idea of Cultivation.

In re-reading the interlude where Eshonai talks to her mother in WoR, and her mother recounts the story of the lost legion leaving the Dark Home, she specifically says that the “Gods” granted them forms of great power but that also required obedience, one of those Gods was Odium the other (I believe) was Cultivation! The listeners due to the gemhearts inside their body that spren can be forced into were used for a proxy war between Odium and Cultivation! Another good point on this front is that Venli was given a godspren in a sphere and the other one was given to Szeth, a Shin. This was Gavilar’s plan all along to awaken the “Old Gods”. Also note that Cultivation is the know fount of the Old Magic. I don’t think the Old here is coincidental.

So, this all leads to the speculation that the group of listeners that Kaladin is helping are being guided by a cultivation spren. It is looking quite possibly like a Desolation is the war between the Voidbringer and Cultivation spren possessed native beings on Roshar. There are probably natural affinities for all of the different great shells as to which shardic influence they are more susceptible to, but they are all probably controllable by either side to some degree, with the listeners being balanced between the two. I think the Chasm fiends are predisposed to be Voidish, while the Scanthids and the Reshi islands are predisposed to be Cultivationish.

Which of these two founts of power is Mraize trying to harness? He is obviously interested in getting rid of the Evil presence, so my money is on the power of cultivation, he’s been around and is an astute fellow, probably knows better than to try and harness Odium. There is a secion in WoR where Jasnah is talking to Shallan about the surges, using the words of another scholar (that she agrees with) where she explicity states that the ten surges are derived from both Honor and Cultivation, and that Honor is responsible for the emotional surges and Nature is responsible for the surges that be described as Natural forces. I think that this and the boon/curse paradigm of the Nightwatcher’s gifts hint at the fact that Cultivation is neither evil or good, it is possibly a shardic ideal more inline with Sazed’s harmony, not really a force for good or evil, but rather just a force. Also, in reading this chapter, I think that there is a definite color motif associated with the 3 shards, Honor is blue, Cultivation is yellow, and Odium is Red. Why does Mr. T show up in burnt orange robes. Perhaps he is the nexus of the two influences speeding the new desolation on, a boon/curse from the Nightwatcher to set the world afire combined with the guiding, strategically misleading death rattles from Moleach…

It’s becoming increasingly hard to get work done on Tuesdays…

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Crim
7 years ago

@106 I don’t think that’s likely.  She would have contacted her mother IMO.  If it was her, why would she pretend to be from a different order of KR?  No, pretty sure this is a new character.

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Jake Eddy
7 years ago

@@@@@ 119

She just seems suspicious to me, and Jasnahs goals can be cryptic. It just seems like a thing Jasnah would do to get back to her mother, Urithuru, etc. Also, she hasn’t been alone with Navani or Dalinar yet.

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Whitespine
7 years ago

@120

But she wasn’t exactly covering her face and both Dalinar and Navani would see past superficial hair and clothing changes. She can’t lightweave like Shallan.

Steve-son-son-Charles
7 years ago

@106

As someone previously mentioned, I think it might be Liss, who may or may not be a herald, but she does have a blade (whether it is an honour or shard blade, that is not clear).

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7 years ago

The Shin eyes of the yellow spren and the good catch about Syl referring to a he and Kaladin seeing a she are significant I think, but I don’t have a good theory to add to why.  I am so curious to know what/how/who is happening with a bunch of these spren leading the Parshmen to the “gathering.”

The Stormfather’s confirmation that the bond is not causing the Old Magic to fail surprised me.  I haven’t really thought the wording of the boon to “forget his wife” was the cause, but it seems at more possible with the frequent juxtaposition of his wonder at being married to Navani and return of the Evi memories.  I still think there is a good reason to doubt it because of the interlude in WoR where Shalash is destroying the art.  Her two minions discuss how the Nightwatcher specifically does not trick you or hold you to parsed meanings of the words, but just grants you something she thinks you deserve. 

I would think forgetting this second wife years later is clearly outside of any possible meaning of Dalinar’s (supposed) request.  However, as I write this, I guess if Dalinar were a despicable individual at the time because of whatever he did while going after his wife, the Nightwatcher could have thought he “deserved” to forget any wife and chance of happiness in the future.

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7 years ago

I may have missed it but since it is now confirmed that the Radiant Bond is not what is breaking the Nightwatcher Boon/Curse has anyone suggested that it could be a result of the Everstorm?

Reasoning/Thoughts:

1- No known Nightwatcher Boon/Curse issues have been reported Pre-Everstorm

2- Dalinar and Lift both begin to notice changes after the Everstorm 

3- Besides the Radiant Bond it is the only concrete similarity between Dalinar and Lift

4- Based on Dalinar slowly regaining his memories and Lift beginning to think that she may be changing perhaps the storm is breaking the Nightwatcher magic more with each pass.

5- If the Nightwatcher is of Cultivation as many think why is the Everstorm messing with that magic and not anything that is of Honor

6- What other big unknowns for the Radiant Bond/Old Magic/Voidbringers will the Everstorm bring

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7 years ago

commanderzander @102, I noticed it, too! Mraize referring to the Parshendi as listeners caught my eye immediately and although I don’t know what it might signify, I have a hard time believing it was without a meaning.
I was one of those who had the idea that maybe Helaran is alive and somebody else was wearing the Plate on that field, but discarded it before finishing the chapter. It is more likely Mraize is planning to reveal that Kaladin was the one who killed him, although, as others have pointed out, it’s not exactly a secret any more, though not all (eg Shallan) might know it.
I always thought the chicken was just a parrot from Shinovar or somewhere, but I am totally buying the aviar theory!
And count me in as one of those who do not feel comfortable about the new Dustbringer. I hope everything is fine with her and she does notturn out to be somebody giving our heroes a storming lot of trouble, but if a person comes with Taravangian and smiles knowingly all the time .. I get suspicious.
Also, glad to see I’m not the only one who wishes Kaladin got away from there ASAP. I like the Parshendi he’s with, and he does have Syl and the gemstones are now infused, but … I’d feel a lot less nervous if he got away from this mysterious spren and their secret destination before things might  get sour.

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Clara Tutt
7 years ago

Alright – adding in my guess now!

I reckon Dalinar’s boon was to forget his wife – maybe he caused her death or treated her badly.

I reckon his curse is to remember again now that he is remarried.  E.g. now he is happy with someone else, to remember what happened to his first wife.  

All his new memories have started now that he has remarried.

 

 

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7 years ago

Could the yellow spren be a normal listener spren, like for workform or nimbleform? I don’t recall a description of those, or how intelligent they are.

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ostinado
7 years ago

My thoughts about what we have read so far, based on clues given on previous chapters:

 

– The yellow Spren is NOT a voidspren. Syl may not know what she is, only that she is not from the Radiant Orders. We know there were sprens already on Roshar before Honor and Cultivation arrived. She may be one of them, traditionally bonded to the Parshmen but unable to because they had their Identity severed? Furthermore, the fact she can’t fly (the pillars on her feet) could be another clue. Cultivation only spren perhaps?

– The Nightwatcher is really Cultivation (or strongly associated to it) based on the strength of her powers and a clue Dalinar gives, “the valley had a lot of plants”.

-The Parshmen were the original inhabitants of Roshar, before the Shards of Adonalsyum arrived. It would explain why there are sprens with 4 sexes (Parshendis themselves have at least 4 basic Forms).

– Its becoming harder to forgive Adolin if he is ever found out. Dalinar will have to make an example of him or risk dividing the realm. It is going to end very badly.

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Kassie
7 years ago

I’ll admit the identity of this in-book author has got me curious. Since it appears to be a book that hasn’t been written yet, it could potentially be anyone. Some quotes taken independently have even made me suspect Dalinar (thinking others are smarter) or Kaladins younger brother Tien (such as not actually dying,) but reading all the quotes at once, I don’t think it could be anyone other than Jasnah. 

 

 “I’m certain some will feel threatened by this record. Some few may feel liberated. Most will simply feel that it should not exist.

I needed to write it anyway.

I know that many women who read this will see it only as further proof that I am the godless heretic everyone claims.

I can point to the moment when I decided for certain this record had to be written. I hung between realms, seeing into Shadesmar—the realm of the spren—and beyond.

I thought that I was surely dead. Certainly, some who saw further than I did thought I had fallen.

I did not die. I experienced something worse.

That moment notwithstanding, I can honestly say this book has been brewing in me since my youth.

The sum of my experiences has pointed at this moment. This decision.

Perhaps my heresy stretches back to those days in my childhood, where these ideas began.

I ask not that you forgive me. Nor that you even understand.

I ask only that you read or listen to these words.

In this record, I hold nothing back. I will try not to shy away from difficult topics, or paint myself in a dishonestly heroic light.

I will express only direct, even brutal, truth. You must know what I have done, and what those actions cost me.

For in this comes the lesson.

It is not a lesson I claim to be able to teach. Experience herself is the great teacher, and you must seek her directly.

You cannot have a spice described to you, but must taste it for yourself.

However, with a dangerous spice, you can be warned to taste lightly. I would that your lesson may not be as painful as my own.

I am no storyteller, to entertain you with whimsical yarns.

I am no philosopher, to intrigue you with piercing questions.

I am no poet, to delight you with clever allusions.

I have no doubt that you are smarter than I am. I can only relate what happened, what I have done, and then let you draw conclusions.  —From Oathbringer, preface”

 

At this point in the story Jasnah is the only one who has “seen Shadesmar,” been called a “godless heretic” and been thought dead. Plus the writing style reminds me of Jasnah and Shallan’s well thought out/lawyer type of speech. But I will simply show you the evidence and let you come to your own conclusions. 

 

 

 

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7 years ago

Just because the Stormfather isn’t the one healing Dalinar’s brain damage doesn’t mean that regular holding Stormlight isn’t doing the healing. He hasn’t held much, but the first time he remembered was immediately after he took in a little bit of it. We’ve already seen Stormlight regenerate servered limbs and restore an arm ruined by a Shardblade, and possibly restart Lift’s normal aging /growing process, so it seems that it can heal literally anything short of total death. 

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A Wild Fluff Spren
7 years ago

Most of my thoughts have been posted by other people already, so I’ll just skip to the one I didn’t see while skimming…

Kal interacting with the Spren set off a ton of red flags in my head, mostly along the lines of “this seems… kinda like it’s already been done. In WoR we saw him lose Syl because he wasn’t sticking to his oaths. Here it is implied that Syl is being held hostage against his good – or bad, depending on your point of view – behavior. Does this mean that he can’t use his Windrunner abilities again? It feels kind of meh, emotionally. Admittedly, I haven’t read the book yet. So, it’s entirely possible Sanderson has done something really interesting with it. But, that is my initial reaction.

A suggested fix off the top of my head would be to move what Kal is facing into Shallan’s arch. Maybe while she’s digging around in Urathiru, trying to expel some darkness, she accidentally lets something loose (the Odium Spren), and things evolve from there as they would for Kal, only it would be Shaman dealing with it.

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7 years ago

test post after 4 failed attempts.

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Andrew
7 years ago

@35 Holy forking shirtsnacks, I think you’re right.  That is awful.  Major league awful.

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Ok, I can kiss off work on Tuesdays until Nov 14th I guess, lots of great theories floating around here.

Here are my thoughts, in no particular order that have been influenced by Rolling Rocks and your comments:

-Boon/Curse
The idea that these are slowly being dissipated by the everstorm is too great to ignore. Dalinar slowly getting his memories back, Lyft having time to adjust to the fact that she really is getting older (she has weathered 2 everstorms by the end of Edgedancer). Seems like you guys are on to something here. Possible explanation. The storms blow in opposite directions, one infuses stormlight, the other does what…It can’t simply be vehicle for the distribution of voidspren (though it does that for sure), it causes destruction, but what else does it do? Looks like a RAFO.

-Taravangean
Multiple times Adrotagia has to grab him by the arm when he says things that unwittingly tip his hand. He has a handler, he is in one of his stupidier more compassionate days, the days where he is smart enough to understands why he has done what he has done, but is also compassionate enough to feel remorse. This could be a sign that he is returning as well to his base line intelligence.

-Mraize’s bird
I hope it’s an aviar. Worldhopper’s unifying characteristic is their cosmere prescience. Of course Mr. Blowgun could evade all of the pitfalls of the island gods. Also, I get the sense that Brandon likes this character a lot, he has the makings of an anti-Hoid. Reductive speech, seemlingly dark ulterior motives, could he in fact be another Yolenite? Could he be Yin to Hoid’s Yang.

-Heleran
I think that limited omniscience is not too much to ascribe to Mraize, the same type that Hoid seemingly displays. Like his Epilogue in WoK, knowing when the man claiming to be Taln would knock on the door’s of the Alethi warcamp. I think Heleran is truly dead and that the fact that he was killed by Kalidin, as has been speculated, is strategic information that Mraize will use to divide Shallan’s loyalty and cause her, and specifically her Veil persona, to become more aligned with the ghostbloods and pulled further away from Dalinar and Co.

 

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7 years ago

I believe that Shallan will not blame Kaladin when she learns the truth.  At some point in WoR, Shallan thinks to herself that (based on the story Amaram told Shallan) Helaran tried to kill Amaram.  She acknowledges that Amaram was defending himself.  Although she still thinks of Amaram as a bastard. 

Naupathia @43.  Ivory presents himself as a male.  He is the Inkspren bonded to Jasnah.

Hammerlock @70.  I do not think of a woman having to yell “Hey, Listen” to her husband because when he thinks of her all he hears is Shshsh as a curse.  To me it is a boon 😊.  Most married men (or at least me) have selective hearing when it comes to those things 😊.

Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren

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Grythe
7 years ago

The shin won’t stand on stone, I wonder if the yellow spren’s stone pillars and shin eyes are a clue towards the reason for the Shin beliefs.

I wonder if the fear of stone has something to do with spren bonding through or being able to connect with the physical realm via stone or mineral type materials (void spren in particular). 

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7 years ago

Random thoughts

– Mr. Ts behavior is consistent with a stupid day.  Reference the testing in WoR, where one of the restrictions mentioned was being allowed out withour an escort.

– We also got a timeline for roughly when T visited the Nightwatcher: About a year after the assassination.

– Also, the spren in Kaladin’s chapter gave me my first thought that Kal’s going to be the champion.  She just subtly offered Kaladin something he’s been lacking for some time: acceptance without judgement.  That sounds very tempting.

– I got the impression that Adolin knew that Ialai was obliquely accusing him of the murder, which was why he panicked and changed the subject. 

– I’m not convinced that Malata is a Radiant at all, due to a simple test that Dalinar isn’t doing: Where’s the spren.  Not the Blade which is totally a spren for realsies guys, but the spren itself.  I like the earlier suggestion that it’s an honorblade.

– I don’t believe that Stormlight is to blame for Lift and Dalinar.  As for Lift, she asked to not change, but there are a lot of ways that one can “not change”.  Dalinar we saw take in stormlight at the end of WoR, just to show off to Kaladin, and heard her name as static in OB.  If the stormlight were having an effect, we would have seen it earlier than we did.  I still stand by it being something to do with Kadesh.

– Helaran is dead.  I think Mraize doesn’t know the specifics of his death, particularly Kaladin’s involvement.  What he knows is what he was doing on a battlefield in Alethkar.

– Tezim MIGHT be a Radiant, but I’m pretty sure that he isn’t a Herald/deity.  When have Sanderson’s god-kings EVER been really divine?  Susebron was close, but even he was little different from the other Returned.  The Lord Ruler just won the genetic lottery.  It’s just like cult-of-personality type rulers today.  They’re not gods, but they cultivate the image with their subjects anyway.

ImpatientKensai
7 years ago

Please correct me if any of this is wrong or where my logic may be flawed. We know that Odium has killed Honor. He has also killed other holders of shards before. We know that Cultivation is still alive. We know/suspect from Wyndle that the Nightwatcher is of Cultivation. We also know that the everstorm has come which is a product of Odium. What if the reason the boon/curse is failing is because Cultivation is now being attacked by Odium?

ImpatientKensai
7 years ago

Hammerlock @70 Thanks for the Zelda reference! I also started to grind my teeth everytime I heard Navi yell “Hey Listen!” A curse indeed. Ah my carefree days of youth playing Zelda all day.

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Alatar
7 years ago

@75

BS lived some time in Korea, and he’s stated several times that he reads manga and watches anime. Not everything he writes is manga flavored but Stormlight Archive is very manga: huge magic swords, bulks of heavy magic armor, gargantuan monsters… He said that he devised the magic system in Roshar to allow for those big swords, and they’re a mark of epic fantasy manga.

@106

I also thought it could be Jasnah in disguise, but I don’t think that’s the case, because Jasnah doesn’t get Lightweaving and she should be VERY GOOD with makeup to fool her own mother up close.

 

Also, there are so many people thinking that the curse from Dalinar is fading because he remarried. No way. Now that we have solid confirmation that the bond has nothing to do, the most probable explanation is that the Everstorm or the rise in power of Odium and His minions has affected the Nightwatcher power. What could possibly affect Lift to have her boon fail too? By the way, what’s Lift’s curse? She wanted to never change and she got the “turn food into Stormlight” as a bonus?

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Havok3c
7 years ago

so my guess is that it’s not that Taravangian is having a not smart day its that he does t have that many Smart days at all anymore. Both Dalinar and Lift have begun to loose what they got from the Nightwatcher so it stands to reason he would be as well. 

 

 

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7 years ago

@@@@@ 141 Havok3c
But we are told by Dalinar that Taravangian used to be quite keen of mind before he was cursed/blessed with his changing intelligence. If the curse started to wear off, wouldn’t he have more ‘above average’ days, on the level he was before? If it starts to wear off without him getting his original intelligence level back, he would become average. His smart days are as common as his stupid days after all.

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7 years ago

Lightbringer @130, hoiditthroughthegrapevine @134 (and possibly others).  I do not think Lift’s boon/curse is weakening.  Just because she thought she would not change, did not mean that was her boon or curse.  Lift believes that not changing is to stop growing – always remain the same age.  As others have noted (both on the OB chapter releases) and the Edgedancer re-read, Lift is not a reliable narrator.  Just because she asked for something, does not mean she received exactly what she thought she would.  Further, if she could not change, I wonder how she could bond Wyndle.  Each KR must advance by saying Five Oaths (or, for Lightweavers, one Oath and multiple Truths).  I find it hard to believe that a KR could advance without changing.  Granted, this change would be an internal growth; but a growth nonetheless.  As I understand the term, growth is a form of change.

Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren

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Italianbaby
7 years ago

Could the ‘pain’ that Dalinar had asked for removal from Nightwatcher have something more to do with his relationship with Navani? It’s emphasized again and again how much his lack of her had driven him mad and now that they are married, there’s no more pain, like when he had that surreal moment that Navani was on his arm, he had a flashback… Oh my, is that it??

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7 years ago

I don’t think Mraize knows that Kaladin killed Heleran. Not sure how he would, unless he has spies in bridge four (doubtful, why spy on a lowly bridge crew?) or really really close to Dalinar (which, ok maybe, but still feels off to me.) Feels too pervasive to be real maybe. And I think Heleran is dead.  But he was also Up To Something back in the Shallan  flashbacks, that led to him having a Shardblade and fighting Amaram to begin with, and that Something is what Mraize is baiting Shallan with. And us too, damn him.

I agree that the info that Kaladin, not Amaram, killed Heleran, is within Shallan’s periphery but she hasn’t connected yet. Adolin seems likely to help her do so if he brings up Kaladin’s beef with Amaram, not knowing the Shardblade in question was her brother. Just one of many tense revelations these two have in store. 

It highly irritates me that Adolin and Shallan still refer to Kaladin as “bridgeboy.” It’s just so infantalizing. I don’t know if this is supposed to be a reminder of their classism, or due to their particular reactions to his particular brooding personality in their presence. It just always sticks out and makes me cringe. 

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7 years ago

Random theory. What if Evi was pregnant when she died and Dalinar asked for the pain to be taken away (knowledge of a child lost – a child only he and Evi knew about) and his curse was to lose the ability to hear, just hear Evi’s name – but not lose memories of her. Those just left due to trauma, but now are coming back to him because of his ability to see past visions and recognize her name. It’s not a direct outcome of his Nahel bond, but more of a secondary effect. 

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7 years ago

@118 Your comment about the appearance of the spre talking to Kaladin reminded me of this strange occurrence from Chapter 9 of Words of Radiance 

“Syl landed on the side of the pool, looking like a woman standing on an ocean’s shore. Kaladin frowned, leaning down to inspect her more closely. She seemed . . . different. Had her face changed shape?”

I am not sure that we ever got an explanation of this – or if it is relevant to the present discussion 

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7 years ago

I think it most likely that we are seeing Taravangian on an “average”, or even a “bit less than average” intelligence day.

Reasoning:
1.  He shows genuine emotion – including disguised/veiled regret for past crimes.  He can’t do that on intelligent days, as the intelligence overrides his capacity to show any compassion.
2. He wouldn’t falsify emotion on an intelligent day – he loses the capacity for it.
3. He was initially confused and had to be reminded of what to say.
4. He wasn’t winning any points of logic, and conversation with the Alethi wasn’t easy for him.

As for Malata, I do not buy into the theory that it is Jasnah in disguise.  She would have no reason to do so, and it is not part of her nature to hide either.   Jasnah is nothing if not direct.  No, Malata is definitely a different person – but the fact that she was able to operate the oathgate raises questions and narrows things down to a few possibilities:

She’s either:
(1) a new radiant with a living newly-bonded spren, or
(2) one of the heralds in disguise, or
(3) someone holding an honorblade.

There is also a 4th possibility:
(4) she could be an old radiant who’s spren did not die and she has been… waiting.  

Actually there is a 5th possibility, but I’m going to guess that it is unlikely:
(5) she is someone who has somehow awakened a dead blade but is yet to make oaths.  

Actually… even beyond that, now I’m thinking of a 6th possibility:
(6) Perhaps she’s just holding a dead shardblade, and Taravangian was able to engineer a way of operating the oathgate via invention of a fabrial or device he created on one of his smarter days?!?!!!!  

So many possibilities.  I definitely don’t trust her, and I’m glad that Dalinar has considered not trusting her also.  Maybe I’m just too suspicious!  The question still remains as to see where her motivations lie and what she intends to do.  In the service of Taravangian, I’d guess that she is a diagramist in all probability.  Her smile gives me the creeps!

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7 years ago

@146 Mraize wouldn’t have just barely found out that Kaladin killed Helaran from the Amaram business, he would have known all along from the original event.

1.  In Kaladin’s flashback, Amaram’s advisors immediately assigned blame for the Shardbearer attack to the Ghostbloods, saying something like “The Ghostbloods go too far this time!”  It seems that the Sons of Honor and the Ghostbloods have a long standing feud.

2.  The Shardbearer attack, or at least his defeat, was somehow covered up and staged for months later.  When Dalinar tells Kaladin about his behind-the-scenes investigation into Kaladin’s claims, he says that he has some large number of witnesses–17 or something–that say Amaram won his Shards in a separate event months after Kaladin claims the murders and his enslavement happened.  That is a lot of maneuvering and involving other people in Amaram’s false story, whether all those witnesses are complicit, or more likely, Amaram’s inner circle staged some sort of later confrontation with one of his trusted men attacking in the shards and being “killed,” (or likely really killed after being promised otherwise because Amaram) and those witnesses really think that they saw Amaram defeat a Shardbearer.  So an organization as competent as the Ghostbloods, that is already spying on and attacking Amaram’s people, would find out about a cover-up that large. 

And parenthetically, do we know the identity of the seeming superior that Amaram reports the initial attack to?  Thanadal I think without looking in my book… but now I don’t know if I am conflating the high prince Gavilar first thinks had him assassinated and the guy Amaram and his stormwarden mention.  The same name is in my head, but it wouldn’t make sense for Gavilar to suspect the head of the Sons of Honor in his murder would it?

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Mark Temple
7 years ago

Mraize’s chicken — a spren? Talk amongst yourselves.

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7eventhSon
7 years ago

Hi there. Long time reader, First Time commenter.

My thoughts on Dalinar and regaining his memories. It seems obvious to me that Stormlight is directly responsible for the return of  his memories. My reasoning is thus. Stormlight heals both in the physical realm and the cognitive. Proof is when Kaladin got his arm cut by Szeth in WOR and stormlight returns the use of his arm to him. Since spren are the physical expression of cognitive beings, I imagine that the Nightwatcher somehow altered Dalinar’s spirit webbing. It seems reasonable that stormlight would view this as injury to be repaired. I know the storm father said it wasn’t him or the nahel bond itself. But I think the active use of stormlight is what caused Dalinar to regain part of his memory. It happened right after he bonded Kadash to the floor and it would explain why the memories are coming back slowly instead of all at once. The stormlight slowly heals the spiritweb much the same way it heals the body.

Also here’s another idea, No proof but just an interesting thought. What if Urithiru is the place where Odium is trapped? Much like Ruin’s well of Ascension. It might explain why Adolin lost control of himself when he killed sadeas. Either that or it might be the third missing spren. At least I thought I read somewhere that there was three, one for the death rattles one for the thrill and this could be the effect of the third?

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7 years ago

@151- I had not remembered the bit about Amaram’s official story being tied to an event months later, involving a number of witnesses who could possible have had Ghostblood ties.  So I agree Ghostbloods could know that way that Amaram didn’t do it. And, if Heleran was himself a Ghostblood, they’d have interest in knowing what really happened. But, I am skeptical that Mraize would be able to connect Kaladin to the act, as he was sold into slavery and sent into obscurity and probably expected to die. I suppose one of Amaram’s men who followed the orders to kill Kaladin’s could have been a Ghostbloods plant. But even if so, the Ghostbloods would have had to have put impressive energy into following Kaladin from that moment onward, through the slave wagons and failed escapes and the bridge crews and all, to be able to make the connection that this former bridgeman Kholin captain turned Radiant is the same person as that poor sot Amaram discarded. That would be…remarkably thorough effort on their part. 

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7 years ago

Just started…

chptr 22 Oatbringer-Preface quote — BLAH…

These preface snippets no longer interest me, as others havein the previous books.

good thing the chapter material makes up for it. 

I hope… And we read on!

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Gildedbear
7 years ago

Thoughts of this Sanderfan:

Mraize’s chicken: Not an aviar.  Sure, it’s possible but it doesn’t seem to be plausible.  Somebody would have needed to survive Patji (assuming that the perpendicularity is , where everything tries to kill you, so they could talk to a Hunter, who would try to avoid you and also likely try to kill you with death traps, so they could learn about aviar.  It seems unlikely, to put it mildly.  Particularly when parrots are known to exist on various Cosmere worlds (Scadrial, Nalthis, and even Roshar itself).  And all of that before we even consider that we don’t have enough knowledge of aviar gifts to guess at what Mraize might have it for.

Kaladin and the Parshspren:  Not a voidspren.  All we currently have is Kaladin (who doesn’t know anything) and Syl’s (who knows more but is not all knowing) word for it.  That’s not really much to go on.  It certainly could be a voidspren but there are just too many questions surrounding it; most notably that it guided the parshmen into a cave for the Everstorm.

Dalinar’s memory:  The idea that his boon/curse is to not remember his wife (which is now Navani) is terrifying.  I think it’s more likely that the Nightwatcher’s gifts are vanishing all over the world (which of course means issues for the diagramists).  However, both taking in stormlight and “can’t remember wife” seem like they could be “surprising yet inevitable” causes of the memories returning to me (at least to a person who hasn’t been over analyzing every three chapters).

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7 years ago

I thought Shallan wanted to hide her identity from the Ghost Bloods, yet she gave herself away even though Mraize hadn’t shown any sign that he recognized her. 

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7 years ago

@151 Restares, possibly.

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7 years ago

gaultheaiel@157, the Ghostbloods already know who she is, in the end of Words of Radiance, they leave her a note addressed to Shallan, not Veil, and they are bringing her brothers.
Edit: I just checked and not only a note, but Shallan and Mraize also talked right after that, Mraize baiting her about knowing answers why her father joined the Ghostbloods and Helaran sought out the Skybreakers.

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7 years ago

Okay,

so I’d bet that the oathbringer snippets are from Evi, explaining why she did – whatever it is she did – that drove Dalinar to seek relief from the night watcher?

Also, Tezim has got to be Jezrien. I know people say he’s supposed to catatonic and all, but so was Taln before Shallan used stormlight and brought him out of his stupor briefly. I would suggest that the mention of the KR being refounded and of Urithiru reopened created a similar effect with him. 

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Jennifer Alexander
7 years ago

So Dalinar did not notice whether the “dustbringer’s” sword glowed? And I don’t think it was mentioned whether she was light-eyed or dark, but she must be light-eyed? I believe WoB indicated that if a light-eyed radiant (like Shallan) summons her shardblade, her eyes don’t change, but a dark-eyed radiant (like Kaladin) will have eyes that glow the (gemstone) color associated with his order. In the case of the dustbringers that would be red/ruby–another reason why people would associate the dustbringers with the voidbringers.  Dalinar would surely have noticed if her eyes started glowing red when she summoned her blade, so I’m thinking she’s either light-eyed or a dark-eyed non-radiant. In Lift’s case, is it known whether her eyes are light or dark? I don’t think eye color is as socially relevant where she is, so it probably was never mentioned. Anyway, if she has glowing white irises when she summons Wyndle, that would look pretty trippy. If Redin ends up becoming a KR (maybe a dustbringer?), he will look pretty strange when summoning a shardblade as well, with one eye light and the other dark. 

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7 years ago

#36 Melbu Frahana.  As I understand the process for parshmen to become Voidbringers takes a special captured spren for each person.  Then standing in the next storm, like we saw with Eshonai, when she held one captured in a gemstone.  She smashed it, releasing the spren, which in a streak of light entered her chest and began the transformation process.

#56 Zachrandir.  I do not think that is correct.  He isn’t the only one being changed by stormlight.  It is not just old magic being effected.  Stormlight appears to have a healing affect.  With Dalinar, his memory of his first wife is returning.  With Lift, she is starting to grow and mature.  There are all the children affected by injury or illness, in the orphanage who are being healed by exposure to the Stump and her Stormlight.  Last of my examples, Lopen has grown a new arm to replace the one that was taken.  

 

#76 AndrewAB.  I used two charts, one in the back pages of WoR and one from the Coppermind-17th Shard, which lists information about the ten orders of Knights Radiant.  The nineth order are the Stonewards, and their gemstone is Topas, which is yellow.  Their herald is Tahenel’Elin.

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Frank
7 years ago

i have an interest in “the unmade” now and highly suspect one of them to be the darkness that inhabits the tower. It seems to me one of them also brings “the thrill” onto men in battle. They can, after all, twist the minds of men. 

Perhaps one of the unmade is inhabiting people and duplicating the murders? Or does it have the ability to commit the act itself? 

We have only been given a glimpse and a faint whisp of the power these beings have and certainly will need to learn more of them all before Dalinar and Odium choose their champions to battle.

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7 years ago

A few (hah!) more thoughts:

Noblehunter @18:

Oh, Lady Trent writes the best epigraphs, both witty and bursting with intriguing information, which is why they don’t seem too long to me at all. Alas, the same can’t be said about the Oathbringer ones so far. And I really don’t see how they could gain much significance in hindsight, because there is just a ton of information-free self-deprecation ;).

But yes, Jasnah is definitely out. No matter what horrible mistakes she makes, she’ll never think that everybody else is smarter than her. Ditto Navani. I don’t think that this is Dalinar, as I have a strong feeling that the author is female. Also, he may be humble re: his intellect and other failings, but he is also very direct, he wouldn’t waste our time beating around the bush for so long.

Shallan is still a possibility – she is given to self-deprecation/self-doubt,  and while she considers herself to be reasonably smart, whatever horrible ordeal awaits her in this volume could plausibly shake her belief in her intellect.

Dashardie @30:

I was struck by your idea, because so much of it would fit what we have gleaned of Evi’s personlity so far – but wouldn’t she have to be another “ressurection” in such a case, with an added soap-operish drama of Dalinar having to deal with bigamy on top of everything else.

Left-field option – Aesudan?

 

Malata – is it a coincidence that her name is so similar to that of Eleventh Metal? Could this be some worldhopper in-joke, hence her perpetual amusement? Or could she be Vivenna? The only thing connecting them would be the short hair-cut, atypical for Veden women, IIRC, but something that Vivenna was sporting at the end of Warbreaker… Also, _could_ she have Chana’s Honorblade? I thought that the Stone Shamans had the other 7 and the only mystery is current location of “Taln’s” blade?

Speaking of the Shin – might they be Odium-worshippers, or did they somehow confuse Talenel and Odium and their respective connections to stone during the millenia since the Recreance? Because that voidspren with a Shin face and stone imagery is suggestive. And, of course, 2 of the Heralds/KR orders are also associated with yellowish hues – Talenel/Stormwards – topaz(amber) and Ishar/Bondsmiths – heliodor(golden).

I don’t think that voidspren lose their sapience when they enter Roshar during a Desolation – that’s why there is so much devastation. But, presumably, they can’t return immediately after being banished. Maybe they already exist in the physical realm on Braize and Desolations open some kind of gate between the planets, so that voidspren don’t have to return to the Cognitive realm? And when they are banished, they are forcibly evicted from the physical plane and need time to cross back and recover?

Ob.Lit: Odium is “The King in Yellow” and Taravangian splits the difference in portrayal of Roman Emperor Claudius between “I, Claudius” by Robert Graves and Seneca’s version, i.e.: “This man killed people as easily as a dog squats on it’s haunches”. :). Which last also fits the younger Dalinar to a T as well ;).

I don’t think that Painrial caused the return of Dalinar’s memories, because it has to be activated to work and it hasn’t been.

Devisor @41:

Maybe the circles are designated spots for Elsecallers and Willshapers to appear and disappear without the risk of a “transporter accident” or similar? Maybe Jasnah will dramatically appear in one next week. I can hope…

Would somebody, please, remember that Rlain and Sigzil have vital information about some of the problems vexing Dalinar? Pretty please? With a cherry on top? Renarin, you are supposed to be smart and in routine contact with the Bridge 4? And wasn’t somebody writing down listener songs shared by Rlain?

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Zaineph
7 years ago

He felt a kinship to it—but still a wariness. It was a sergeant who was too brutal in training his recruits.

This kind of reminds me of the snapping from Mistborn. Snapping brought the alomancy, Storms bring stormlight.

Also, before the book, I thought that Dalinar wasn’t going to make it out alive, however the more that I’m reading, the more I think that it will be Adolin that is going to die.

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ATB
7 years ago

As regards the Nightwatcher and curses/boons, remember when we were first introduced to her, we were given an anecdote about a brother who had gone to see her and came back with numb hands and too embarrasses to say what his boon had been. The inference is obvious – he had asked to feel no pain. In other words, his boon and curse were one and the same thing.

As such, I suspect that the idea that the Nightwatcher is bound to give one boon and one curse is a bit like the idea that if you word your wish perfectly you’ll escape the curse. I.e. they are both Rosharian folktales which have grown up around her. Far more likely that she uses her own judgement to dispense what she feels the person is worthy of and that this usually takes the form of a boon and curse. We’ve seen with Lift that she’s, in her own way, trying to prepare the world to fight Odium’s return, so it doesn’t seem impossible that she’s done something similar with Dalinar. 

Perhaps the ‘curse’ was always meant to be temporary until he was capable of facing his memories without turning back into the monster he had been when young. Or, for that matter, perhaps that was the boon he asked for.

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7 years ago

Dalinar says in this chapter “I asked her to take away pain.  She took memory, too.”

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7 years ago

@140

That explains so much – especially those “epic” moments. I’m interested to know which ones he’s read/watched. 

@163

I agree – it has to be an Unmade. I would hope that in this book, we would have to meet at least one or two of them.   

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7 years ago

Loooooong time lurker, first time poster.

Probably completely out there, but what if Malata is Vivenna? That was my very first thought when she appeared, and perhaps she obtained an Honorblade when looking for Nightblood as a clue to finding Vasher. Or maybe I’m just overzealous in the search for Viv. I don’t think we are going to get any absolute confirmation that someone is definitely Vivenna in OB.

Also really liked the line from Shallan about becoming Veil when she’s angry. Don’t want to mess with her. It also lends credence to the theory that Shallan’s true personality is Veil.

@97 Like the idea that the dark presence (for some reason I really wanted to say the Force) is Odium. 

Anyone else think there could be a worldhopping pool in Urithiru? I know there’s most likely one or two in the Horneater Peaks, but what with Urithiru being the KRs’ HQ, some savvy worldhopper who also happened to be a KR somehow connected them??? (Can’t remember if someone from off planet can be a KR…)

@134 Oooooooh an “anti-Hoid”. Even if Mraize has a babsk (correct me if I’m wrong) it could just be the closest Yolen equivalent for Roshar. 

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Whitespine
7 years ago

Regarding Lift changing:

Whatever is happening to Dalinar is unrelated to Lift. Lift’s boon/curse isn’t weakening. She was never granted to boon/curse to not change. That is what she asked for, true, but not what she was given. I just finished rereading Edgedancer and Lift at one point says that she has been trying to ignore getting taller the last 3 years, but now can no longer deny it, especially with having her first period. Further, in the afterword, BS describes her has “thinking” she wasn’t changing (with justifiable reason as that is what she asked for), but she was never not changing. Her boon/curse is not weakening as it was never to stop changing/growing.

What that means is whatever is happening to Dalinar is likely unique and unrelated to the Nightwatcher getting weaker or anything like that. It is likely something to do with being at peace/happy/getting married as others have said. Or perhaps something with Kadash( his friend). Or, my personal theory, the watch. As someone else pointed out, the first memory came back after the first time he was wearing it. And this chapter he pointedly looks at his watch right before he thinks about how his memories are coming back. Anyway, don’t expect Mr. T to stop fluctuating his intelligence or for others’ boon/curse pairs to start failing.

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steeleperry
7 years ago

Dalinar recovering his memories is likely related to his withdrawal from the thrill and perhaps from Odium’s influence. 

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Jeffery Weskamp
7 years ago

I love Tezim’s letter. The language sounds like something from the King James translation of the Old Testament. I imagine that Tezim is the kind of person who cannot speak without having an exclamation point at the end of each sentence! Really, imagine this guy telling his cooks what he wants for supper….

 

“Bear witness! Tezim the Great, blessed be him, commands you to prepare the smoked flesh of swine! With carroway most pure and thrice-filtered saffron! Go forth and fulfill this command with straightway haste!”

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nieg
7 years ago

Still no Hoid? =(

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7 years ago

Jeffery @172 – Good thing I’d just swallowed that coffee… :) Nice one.

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@169 Good point about the possible worldhopping spot in the Horneater peaks. The pool that allows the Horneaters to see Spren seems like a prime canidate for a perpendicularity. Also, it is probably a place of heavy investiture by Cultivation. Re-reading WoR, I noticed during the first diary of the Almighty trip with Dalinar where he is venturing out to find spren that don’t act right and is in the purelake, there was an impressive fortress that rose up from the water and looked like it was made of Obsidian. This is strikingly similar to the way that water is described in shadesmar, could this also be a perpindicularity, possibly even a point where shadesmar directly projects into the pyhsical realm? Also would explain why the 17th sharders are in the purelake looking for Hoid. Also, the strange old-magicy quality of the fish in the pure lake hints at maybe this being another site of heavy investiture for Cultivation. Could Nuralik (sp?), the good god of the purelaker’s be a splinter of Cultivation? Could his evil brother be a splinter of Odium? Interesting to speculate.

@169, Doesn’t the idea of an anti-Hoid sound awesome! Brandon loves symetrical systems, and I get the sense that Mraize is just using the Ghostbloods to further a deeper more ambitious plan. He is a known worldhopper, re-reading the Shallan Chapter the chicken on his shoulder seems like an Aviar that warns of danger, it only squawks when Shallan talks to Mraize in an openly hostile manner.

“What are you doing here?” she hissed at him.

His chicken chirped softly, as if in agitation.

and

“A task?” Shallan snapped, causing the chicken to chirp at her again. “Mraize, I’m not going to do some task for you people. You killed Jasnah.”

So more on the speculative front, we know of 3 or possibly 5 groups that have pan cosmere wide ambitions/plans:
1) The 17th Shard (currently non-interventionist, lead by Frost the dragon, currently searching for Hoid)
2) The IRE, ancient beings that can live physically in the Cognitive Realm that appear to be from Taldain Darkside, who try to capture the Power of Preservation, and who fear that people from Threnody (where the shard Ambition was from) will try to intercede/and or claim the shards power for themselves.
3) The Silverlight scholars. Seen on Sixth of Dusk, Kriss was once part of there number, but now operates independently.
4) Speculative – Hoid’s group. He seems to operate alone, but his letter suggests that he is actively seeking out allies to help in the struggle against Odium. This implies that he has some other proficient cosmere world hoppers on his side that see things his way.
5) Speculative – Mraize’s group. THis is pure speculation, but the thing that drives this character more than anything is Ambition. Thirst for power without any moral basis. Could he perhaps represent the interests of a faction that somehow survived the devestation of the Splintering of Ambition on Threnody. Could he and his group be the ones that the IRE were so worried would come and try to take preservations power? Could he in fact be waiting on Roshar, like a scavenger at periphery of the battle between a tiger and lion, to take up the power of the fallen shard? This all seems highly plausible to me, and freaking rad.

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7 years ago

@175 It isn’t a pool that allows the horneaters to see spren. They can see spren because they have Listener blood. But yes, there is a perpendicularity in the Horneater Peaks, which Hoid has been seen using.

And the Ire are Elantrians, not from Taldain.

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7 years ago

@@@@@ 146,154 writelhd
I agree that it’s weird Shallan hasn’t connected these things yet. Has Dalinar announced publicly why he removed Amaram as the head of the Knights Radiant? Or is it simply known that he has, but not the reason? Somehow I don’t think any of the darkeyed soldiers will want to cooperate with Amaram if it becomes known he stole a shardblade from a darkeyes.

Also, I don’t think the Ghostbloods needed to track Kaladin’s every move to be reasonably certain that he was the one that killed the shardbearer. If we assume that the Ghostbloods had a spy somewhere in Amaram’s army, who was there on that day, they could’ve still figured out quite a bit.

The shardbearer cut his way through most of the army, Kaladin’s entire squad and Amaram’s horse, so if the Ghostblood was on the scene quickly enough, he would be able to see the order of events went like:

– There’s like 50 people dead on the battlefield bearing wounds caused by a shardbearer
– ???
– Amaram’s leg is broken. His horse is dead
– some squad was executed for helping the shardbearer (I have no idea how this works
   if Amaram pretends the attack happens later)
– one soldier gets sold into slavery under suspicious circumstances (at least all the
   slavers knew   something was fishy about the desertion charge)
– three months later Amaram ‘kills’ a shardbearer. There are 17 witnesses.

So the Ghostbloods could have just looked at what happened that day, and looked at the records of slavery and put things together, especially if Amaram pretends Kaladin’s squad died three months later on the records, during the ‘assassination’, but Kaladin was sold into slavery way before that. Kaladin’s comments in WoR would’ve probably confirmed things for them.

Or they could’ve simply had a spy in Amaram’s honorguard, who ran back to the scene after the shardbearer died, but who wasn’t in the room when Amaram stole the shards.

Looking at this, I’m very surprised Dalinar completely believed Amaram. Doesn’t Amaram keep records of who died on what day? Wasn’t Dalinar surprised that all of Kaladin’s squad died (of nothing, since apparently there was no shardbearer on the field that day, absolutely not) and Amaram broke his leg? I’d think he would’ve looked into the day Kaladin was made a slave, since that is where you would find proof (or at least something) if Kaladin was telling the truth.

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One quick thought, I think these preview chapters of Oathbringer are a gift from the Nightwatcher.

The Boon-
Getting to read the chapters before the book comes out, and getting to read insgihtful comments from incredibly smart, dedicated fans.

The Curse-
WAITING! WAITING! WAITING!

Need a time machine set to Nov. 14th….

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randomseriesofnumbers
7 years ago

Someone earlier suggested Syl was trying to have children, and I remembered that the stormfather “shaped her”. The first image in my mind was Syl holding a stick and having a mental conversation with it

Syl: You are my child.

Stick: I am a stick.

Syl: You are my child.

Stick: I am a stick.

Syl: You are my child.

Stick: I am a stick.

Etc…

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nerium
7 years ago

People here mentioning Vivenna made me think that it might have been Mraize to whom she had sold her Locks. Now I’d love it if she was somewhere on Roshar but I don’t think her attitude matches that of Malata’s.

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7 years ago

@177 If you’re going to commit a bunch of murders in order to steal a priceless artifact, a half-way competent criminal is going to make sure the paperwork lines up. One presumes Amaram had full custody of his own records, so forgeries wouldn’t be hard to make.

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7 years ago

A random thought 

Evi is more important than what has been revealed. And contrary to what Navani believes, Evi is more clever and more scholarly. She even has more courage than the average Alethi. She left her homeland for the unknown. Their only bargaining chip was the shard plate. Dalinar already has a reputation for being the Blackthorn. But she was able to hold him off for two or three years though there was already a causal in place. 

Dalinar loves Evi, perhaps more than he loves or has ever loved Navani. It’s jsut tnhat he has forgotten. But with his memories coming back, it could spell disaster with his new marriage. 

Dalinar, Evi, Adolin and Renarin was very close knit. I deduced that from how close Dalinar is with his sons. 

Gavilar, Navani, Jasnah and Elhokar were never close. The way Navani treats Elhokar and the obvious distrust that Jasnah has for her mother were the giveaway for me.

the Kholins family dynamics hold a lot of clue on what is going to happen next. I don’t want to speculate simply because Sanderson always have unexpected plot twists 

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7 years ago

@@@@@ 181 noblehunter
True, but this still raises a lot of questions for me (not specifically aimed at you, just in general about this situation). Why did Tvlakv imply pretty much all the slavers know something was fishy about why Kaladin was enslaved? And even if Amaram had his paperwork in order, hiding the deaths of twenty men for a few months is difficult. I mean maybe not from the lighteyes, but all the other squads? They didn’t wonder what happened, and no-one ever talked? No soldier/surgeon/coroner was like ‘hey, why do all these corpses have burned out eyes?’ Dalinar never talked to the darkeyes that used to work with Kaladin? And Kaladin’s enslavement date was apparently months before his squad was ‘killed’.. so how would Kaladin even know his squad was dead?

(The Ghostbloods could still figure things out simply by having a spy in the army, who would be able to see that the official records didn’t line up with what they could conclude from the battlefield and his surroundings.)

So some options are that all of Amaram’s soldiers are super loyal, and never doubt his word, he has a special clean up squad that forges all the records and ‘removes’ obstacles, or some elements of the paperwork are still a bit suspicious, and Dalinar simply overlooked it, as unused as he is to dealing with the army on the level of the darkeyed squads.

I don’t know, I just have a lot of questions. And I still think that even with a lot of cleaned-up paperwork, something about this stinks. 

 

 

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Cborj
7 years ago

So I haven’t had a chance to look through all of the comments and such but I sometimes get the feeling that Kalidin is going to be the dude with nine shadows.  He sees them for who they are and well he could easily dive down a dark road with the right triggers.  I wonder if it might take on the form of Kalidin becoming the “gray mage” one that bridges the gap between both sides (White, Black, Grey is the medium between the two extremes). There is that group of Parshendi that took off and I wish we knew what happened to them.

You have to remember that there really isn’t an “evil” per se in the story but personality expressions of the same being.  Odium is seen as evil but I get the feeling that we see that because BS wants us to.  So many points of view are still hidden it’s crazy.  ?Maybe the only way to restore things is to break apart the shards and that requires destroying what they have created?

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7 years ago

Taravangian also says, “I wish this day had never come.”  I don’t know if he means the day the Voidbringers and Everstorms arrived, or if he’s hinting at killing or attempting to kill Dalinar.  Very ominous.  I don’t trust his “Radiant” either.  

I’m sorry Amaran is back…and those Ghostbloods are wicked scary.  Shallan is in a pickle.

 

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7 years ago

randomseriesofnumbers@179, LOL. Dangerous business reading comments like this one while eating.
This WOULD explain why we haven’t seen Syl this week …

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Alatar
7 years ago

@153

Odium is not trapped, he currently inhabits Braize, another planet in the Roshar system, but he could leave at will. Or maybe not, I think he’s more like “bound” by the Oathpact, but that’s just speculation. You can see everything known about Odium in here, spoilers at your own risks:

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Odium

Also, I like the idea that Malata is Vivenna, but we’ll see. From now on, we’ll be watching closely for “colorful” language.

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7 years ago

A lot of posts have been on the subject of the everstorm and why the parshmen didn’t change.

From what I understand the Spren the parshendi use to transform are in the high-storms that come from the west as the everstorm is a new phenomenon. So maybe the everstorm was not to transform the parshmen but to wake them up. The spren that Kaladin sees and speaks to could be a void spren that is taking the parshmen to a central location, maybe Kholinar, and then during a normal highstorm they will transform and then can attack Kholinar. 

Just a thought.

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7 years ago

@35 The boon taken literally “memories of the wife” new life, new things to forget. I was thinking that too.

@43 Reading your comment made me think, what if the curse was to forget his wife and we don’t know what the boon was? That would make some sense with a possible shift to forgetting Navani.

Leaving the Comere connections out. These were great chapters that make me salivate for the full book. I love how this story has spread amongst so many deep and distinct characters that you just need to know more about. #BSisKing

 

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7 years ago

hammerlock@35: Dalinar did not wish to have memories taken away. It was the pain.

Kessler@50: No. Wyndle is a cultivationspren.

writelhd@146: The “bridgeboy” thing is supposed to annoy you. Sanderson doesn’t do perfect people–this is a reminder that by current Western standards, Alethi lighteyes are obnoxious aristocrats, even the best ones.

People keep referring to “yellowspren” (Kaladin’s conversation partner) as evil and creepy. Why? She does nothing malicious or even dishonest that we can see throughout this part.

Mraize’s chicken is not an Aviar. It’s a parrot. Sanderson clearly likes parrots and uses them a lot. It certainly isn’t one of the danger-warning Aviar, because IIRC they don’t exist yet: Sixth doesn’t accidentally create the first one until quite a bit later than this.

You know how distance from the Unmade can strengthen and weaken their effects (the Thrill, the Death Rattle)? The gifts and boons of the Old Magic are weakened for Dalinar because Urithuru is farther from the Nightwatcher. This makes sense if you think the Unmade are odiumspren–we have strong reason to think the Nightwatcher is a cultivationspren.

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7 years ago

@90 Elle:Your comparison to Syl brings up a thought that Syl wasn’t fully lucid and knowing until she and Kaladin bonded. Makes me think that there is already a bonded person to the spren, as mature as she seems upon introducing herself to Kaladin.

@93 you feel me? :P

@102 The “listeners” comment caught me too. We hadn’t heard them referred to that way by anyone other than the Parshendi. Just something else I have noticed, Shallan’s spren Pattern hums/buzzes like a Parshendi. Could he be a voidspren or something closer related to the Parshendi?

 

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7 years ago

@182: While I do agree there might be more to Evi than meets the eyes first, I don’t necessarily agree with your conclusions.

Evi and Toh ran away from Rira after stealing a Shardplate in hope to use it as a bargaining chip to secure a new position for themselves elsewhere, a strong secure position to dissuade reprisal. They sought the Kholins because they likely viewed them as the strongest, the meanest and the more apt to discourage their pursuers from reclaiming them and their stolen good.

Who were they? Clearly, they weren’t low-born peasants: they must have been high ranked within their homeland and they had access to a Shardplate they managed to steal and sneek out of the country. This requires means, financial means and… well perhaps other means. They had to carry the Plate, they had to hide it.

Who were they running away from? At this point in time, we have absolutely no idea. Spontaneous guesses would be family feud, rival family threat or invasion: Evi and Toh might have been very high ranked in Rira.

Did they steal the Shardplate because they felt it ought to belong to them or did they steal the Shardplate as a means to buy themselves off a new secure place to stay? I am leaning towards the second option because they essentially gave the Plate to the Kholins (well in truth they gave it to Evi’s son…), thus it must not have been something they were necessarily attached to. At this point in time in the story, it appears the Plate was money they brought with them: the Plate is not the reason they ran away, but it is the reason (or the excuse) why the Iriali Queen is toying with Dalinar.

Thus, Evi and Toh had to have been important enough they felt their security was at risk if they didn’t find a stronghold to hide within. Who they are, what family ties and conflict did they leave behind, which enemy might still be seeking them out, this I believe must be the “more than meets the eyes” about Evi, not her wit. We have had three characters already commenting on Evi’s wit and level of cunning, all to the disadvantage. If I can agree both Navani and Ialai might have been unfair, dismissive and purposefully detrimental towards young Evi, I cannot argue against her own son’s portrayal. Thus, if Evi told young Adolin she envied Ialai’s wits and cunning, wishing she had them too, then I am inclined to believe she wasn’t an intellectual power house. This isn’t to say she wasn’t smart, but as far as political games are involved, she seemed to have been at a disadvantage. The same could be said about Toh, neither Riran appeared particularly cunning, but the lure of an additional Shardplate combined to Gavilar’s desire for legitimacy gave them enough of an upper hand to ask for a more solid alliance. 

I also think there is enough evidence in the book so far to conclude Dalinar did not love Evi. Back in WoK, he spoke of his courtship with Evi as if it were the tale of a great love. He has assumed his boon was to remove the pain from losing her and slowly we see his perception is/was… wrong. Nature doesn’t like void, thus it seems logical Dalinar would have filled the one he has as best as he could. Hence, my thoughts currently are he filled it with thought of how he must have loved his wife, how her death must been hard for him and why he seek the Nightwatcher. So while maybe Dalinar grew out to feel affection for his wife, she was not the love of his life.

It is impossible to get a sense of how the four Kholins were, as a family. All we can get, so far, is Adolin, at the very least, was probably very close to his mother. He’s close to his brother, but not so much to his father. Dalinar, while he loves his sons, is not terribly close with either of them: with Adolin he is mostly professional, with Renarin he is more fatherly but he doesn’t spend a great deal lot of time getting to know them, as far as we can tell. I thus don’t read as such a close knitted group: each have been guarding an important side of themselves… to themselves.

Thus while they have been acting like a family unit, we have inklings not all is peachy within the wonderful world of the Kholins. Adolin, at the very least, feels the strain of being Dalinar’s son. Dalinar is oblivious to it and we saw just how far Adolin is able to go to prevent anyone from seeing his stress/hurt.

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7 years ago

@@@@@ 191 Carl
I think it’s a combination of the fact that we’ve been told she’s a voidspren, and her general behaviour. Personally, her attitude reminds me a bit of Venli. She seems to have that same balance of outward ‘graciousness’ combined with anger when she doesn’t get her way. And there’s this (spiteful) amusement she shows when talking to Kaladin.

For someone who says she wants to rescue the ex-parshmen, she definitely spends a lot of time insulting and belittling them. She has shown very little interessent in teaching the ex-parshmen to be self-sufficient, even though she tells them they’re now free (at least until they get to their destination).

@@@@@ 192 robertthestroh
That sounds logical, though Syl did kind of throw herself into the physical realm on her own, without a lot of preparation that could’ve made things easier for her.

But yeah I agree there’s something here that is helping the voidspren, in order for her memories to stretch back for what she implies is quite a bit longer than a month. I don’t know if it’s a human though. Or even a parshendi. I’m very curious to see what’s waiting for them at their destination..

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7 years ago

Carl @191, regarding this statement:

The gifts and boons of the Old Magic are weakened for Dalinar because Urithuru is farther from the Nightwatcher.

There was an image released recently of the map on the inside of the Oathbringer dust jacket that shows The Valley right next to Urithiru. So Dalinar is now much closer to The Nightwatcher than he was. I wonder if that would have an effect on him?

Another option is that the weirdness of Urithiru is dampening the effect of the Old Magic. Since the Nightwatcher is their next door neighbor, maybe there is some sort of shield protecting them from the magical effects of her presence.

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7 years ago

We have yet to hear from Eshonai since she fell into the chasm in her battle with Adolin.  Bridge four saved him from going over the edge of the plateau. She is presumed to have died, but what if she ends up being brought back alive like Szeth.  Maybe Odium provided a way, like the Skybreakers were able to bring the assassin back, maybe the voidbringers have that ability.  Who better to be Odium’s champion.   I wonder if each tail represents another voidspren in her chest

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1
7 years ago

WHY ARE KALADIN CHAPTERS SO SHORT???

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7 years ago

AlerieCobray @@@@@ 196. I believe Eshonai is alive. She was wearing shard plate. I won’t be surprise if Eshonai makes an appearance in an interlude. :-)

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7 years ago

Well, we won’t know the answer to that until we have the book in hand.  I believe they said in these early chapters, we get no interludes, just part one. 

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7 years ago

The Dustbringer lady is bad news. My far fetched theory is that Odium spren can form Sprenblades like their Honor/Cultivationspren counterparts. She chose Dustbringer as the order most similar to the powers her spren grants her. King T has her on staff as a breaker of the KR should that course of action become necessary via the Diagram.

And bam! There goes the hunny.

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Chazzers
7 years ago

As fast as this new spren  goes, WoR got me thinking about spren. There are spren that appear because of humans and their ponderings and imaginations in the world, but what about the parshendi? The parshendi aren’t humans, they are “voidbringers” so it makes sense to me that their ponderings and imaginations would create spren unique to their race. I thought more about this as I was reading the epilogue and there sthe strange shardblade that glows black. All of the shardblades glow with storm light, except this blade. This blade looks like it’s giving off black storm light. The only explanation that makes sense is the type of spren used to form the shardblade. What if it’s a shardblade made from a “voidbringers” spren?

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7 years ago

@201 chazzers

Are you talking about the blade at the end of WoR?

That is not a shardblade per say but rather a magical steel weapon from another world in the cosmere

It will be interesting to see how Nightblood manifests its investiture in Roshar, will it behave as a shardblade? Or something else?

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7 years ago

#201 Chazzers:  That sword was created by Vasher on Nalthis, in the novel Warbreaker.  It is called Nightblood and can tell the difference between good and evil.  Its creator is now with them on Roshar, he is the world hopper called Zahel, the one with the crazy colored speech.   As far as the sword, it is in Edgedancer, the novella between WOR and OB. 

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nerium
7 years ago

@203 Quite the contrary, while Nightblood’s purpose is to destroy evil, being a sword, it has little understanding of what evil is.

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7 years ago

#197 – the answer to your question has to do with plot pacing and each character’s “through-lines”.  Each character needs an arc, and eventually there will be interaction and intersection, bringing things back together.   If you read Brandon’s updates, he writes each character’s chapters separately, and then integrates them all back into a cohesive book later.  Part of the revision process would be to integrate the arcs into a cohesive timeline, fill in the gaps, and go from there.   

I don’t really have any evidence for the next thing I’m going to say – but my guess is that each of these Kaladin chapters were originally segments of only one chapter in Kaladin’s plot arc.  That chapter was probably cut into smaller chunks to show a longer progression of time, so that when the story intersects with other characters again, the right amount of time will have passed.

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7 years ago

Gepeto @21:

I am honestly surprised that you dislike this developement, as it practically ensures that Adolin will be found out and an attempt will be made to pressure/blackmail him, leading to a confession. At the same time, he is given a chance to participate in something of significance to the overarching plot of fighting against Odium and his minions.

Think about it – Amaram is an analytical and meticilous fellow, as demonstrated both by the expert covering of his trail in the matter of  stolen shards _and_ by his research into location of Urithiru. Unlike Ialai, he isn’t blinded by emotions and preconceptions concerning this case. He is pretty much an  ideal candidate for catching Adolin. At the same time, Dalinar’s new heresies are bound to stoke the conflict between him and Amaram, with Adolin caught between them and the latter trying to use him against/to influence the former. And, there is “Taln”.

All of this is bound to lead to much more interesting developements than “Ialai blackmails Adolin into confession, he is made an outlaw and exits, stage left”. And, frankly, Ialai getting away with a serial killer spree to that end never made sense.

And on the other hand, Adolin will be able to contribute to the actual main struggle of the series with investigation into supernatural killer.

Believe me, I know what it is to have a secondary/tertiary character as your favorite and watch them being pushed aside. But from a practical standpoint, given what we know about the structure of the book and it’s PoV distribution, if Adolin had been found out ASAP and exiled, he’d either drop from our view for parts 2 and 3, or his exile would be too short to be meaningful, in case that he is part 2 “tertiary PoV” (for the record, I think that it is either Jasnah or Eshonai). Or he vanishes after part 2, I suppose. Either way, it would lead to less Adolin and disconnect him from the main plot.

I am with you that I’d like to see Dalinar interact with his sons more. Also, I am somewhat disappointed that we have seen so little of central  characters working together and learning from each other. I have hoped after WoR that we would see Kaladin teaching Dalinar Adhesion (and maybe Gravity, with the Honorblade), Shallan teaching Renarin Illumination, Jasnah finally teaching Shallan Soulcasting, as she promised back in… WoK? Early WoR? Dalinar/Adolin teaching the 3 non-martial Radiants to fight.  I loved Adolin teaching Shallan swordsmanship (which will, hopefully, continue), but I want more! Add Renarin to these sessions! Romance here or there, he needs to train, too, and Shallan’s Illumination short-cuts could be immensely helpful. Not to mention that his presence would add to the characterization of both brothers, etc.

IMHO, our protagonists learning everything by themselves, by the seat of their pants is getting contrived and feels  repetitive and too easy.

The more I think about Mraize and his chicken, the less sense taking the scene at face value makes. I know that Sadeas’s camp fosters non-conformity (yet they still have uniforms?), but why would Ialai allow a simple guard to dirty her floors with birdshit? And, there is the fact that Mraize has a very distinctive appearance and too much on his plate to play this role 24/7, or even every shift a guard would be expected to pull.

OTOH, as a highprince’s widow you also don’t make some random soldier your honor/bodyguard, do you? I mean, both Sadeas’s death and the  culture of competition among his army, along with presumed lack of a clear heir put Ialai very much at risk, no? She’d have to be very careful about who she chooses to protect her, if she doesn’t want to follow her husband ASAP. So, either:

Mraize lied to Shallan and Ialai is a Ghostblood / they work together in some other way

or

Mraize was magically disguised as another person, the real bodyguard, somehow, and his Aviar was  camouflaged to normal senses, but Shallan could see through it due to her surges and investiture 

or

Mraize was disguised through some other investiture, but Ialai suspected him and the bird is a  parrot that belongs to her – in this case it is likely trained to repeat what it hears and she now knows about his conversation with Shallan and their Ghostblood association. This could be the most interesting option, actually, and shore up Ialai’s wobbling villain cred.

Sheighlagh @182:

But wouldn’t this require not just erasure of Dalinar’s memories of Evi, but also insertion of false memories of Navani? I mean, Dalinar can’t recall any period in his life when he felt that he was over Navani, does he? And according to Adolin, his mother wasn’t scholarly and had complexes about her intelligence. Dalinar may have come to love Evi, but IMHO his overhelming pain that caused him to go to the Nightwatcher was due to guilt. We shall see, of course.

 P.S. Information about Helaran that Mraize dangles before Shallan can’t be about Kaladin killing him, as it is not all that secret and Shallan can be expected to find it out on her. It has to be about what he was doing and why. And yes, IMHO he is dead.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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7 years ago

Isilel @ 206, I so agree with comment about wanting to see everyone learning and practicing their surgebinding abilities. The magic is my favorite part of Stormlight (any fantasy book really), and watching Kaladin and Shallan discover and develop their abilities in WOK and WOR were the best parts of those books for me. It was funny to see Dalinar stick Kadash to the floor in an earlier chapter, but I am craving to see him seriously training with stormlight.

I also miss Bridge Four and am eager to see what they can do as squires, but they are stuck with no abilities and no role in the story with Kaladin gone. I hope they can travel with him in the future so they remain relevant. I’m sure these types of scenes will come later in the book, but the wait is excruciating.

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Melbu Frahma
7 years ago

@162

Thanks for your comment but I’m not sure that I understand how it relates to any of my points.

The Yellow spren (i’m convinced that its not a voidspren) had Kaladin’s parshmen hide in a mine to avoid the returning everstorm – why would it do this?

I understand how Eshonai was changed / corrupted in WoR but this is no indication that this is what has happened to the dullform parshmen, and this is only one form of voidspren.

Whilst it was the everstorm rather than a normal storm that ‘converted’ the parshmen what spren did they bond with to remove their dullform?

I reckon that some facet of the everstorm removed whatever ‘inhibit’ was preventing them changing forms and attuning the rhythms, kaladin’s parshmen are clearly not voidwalkers. 

I look forward to finding out in the book!

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7 years ago

@197: I understand wanting to read more of a favored character, but when it comes to Kaladin, I feel his character has had a strong focus so far. Sure, his chapters are currently short, but he had three longer ones when he was at Heartstone. Also, despite him being away and not “doing much”, he has had a lot of viewpoints: one chapter every three chapters is his.

I also honestly do not know what more Brandon could add to those chapters which would be relevant.

@206: Preferring a side character who’s status has never been clear within the series is indeed troublesome. I keep never knowing what to expect: after all Adolin got as many chapters and word count as Dalinar back in WoR. As such, should I expect a story arc exploring his downfall or should I expect this story arc to be merged to a “more important” character, thus leaving Adolin as the “side-kick”?

I have been wanting Sadeas’s murder to matter to Adolin’s character. Half of me has expected it would, the other half knew it was far more likely Brandon would turn this arc into something more relevant to one of his “more important” protagonists. Within the past two weeks, I have seen inklings of it happening as the copycat murders turned out being caused by an “unknown agent/force” as opposed to a ploy to snare Adolin. Thus, the murder is panning into something bigger, more sinister but also completely unrelated to the fact Adolin did murder Sadeas.

It makes me ambivalent on the narrative. It seems we are gearing ourselves with Shallan doing more Veil investigation within the dark streets of Urithiru which is interesting for her character, but it kinda of evict Adolin from this narrative, arguably the only narrative he was getting so far. It seems likely she will work in solo, thinking of how Adolin too is trying to figure it out without the story ever showing us what he is doing. His viewpoints are likely over until part 4, it is great we got the two we’ve got, but I have to know not to expect too much. I knew in advance Adolin’s role had been diminished within OB (likely to make more room for Eshonai/Szeth as their book comes along).

The blackmailing had for merit it would focus on Adolin’s character as opposed to Shallan’s and hence I preferred it as an option. Of course, it could have evicted Adolin from the narrative in a more decisive manner, but I honestly have very little hope we are going to see much of him within part 2/3 either way. It thus seems to me the story had two options:

1) Snare Adolin, put him into the hot spot, watch him crumble, have him go through consequences.
2) Turn the story arc into something involving another character, make the consequence be for this character. Whatever happens to Adolin is a background story.

I am not sure how much “catching” Amamram is going to do. We must keep in mind his character has conflict with Kaladin, hence it is highly likely this will turn into a Kaladin-centric arc very soon.

So while it could be it will lead into interesting developments, say if Adolin does hunt the dark force, for real, with an active participation and hopefully viewpoints, if he does get trapped by Amaram putting his father into a delicate position, then yes, it will be worth it and very interesting to read. The problem is the Adolin story arcs have never been planned this way: they always ended up flipping around themselves to matter more to one of the “main players”. And this week, I saw indications Brandon has renewed the pattern for OB. In shorts, we get Adolin when he is relevant to someone else.

On character inter-action, yes I agree with you. I too had the idea of Adolin training both Shallan and Renarin at the same time. They hate each other, but they love Adolin: seeing him being so intense and passionate about sword fighting might help them put their differences away. For him. I also really wanted to know what would happen if Adolin’s dead-Blade were to touch a real-one……….

I do find how isolate Dalinar currently is to be contrived… The fact he never talks nor thinks of his sons is troublesome, especially considering the story arc with his former wife, their mother. This is odd.

Good points on Mraize… I am dubious as well.

About Evi, as I said, I believe Adolin’s assessment over any other character. Speaking of which, does anyone think Evi taught the boys Riran? Can Adolin speak it?

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Tommy
7 years ago

They hate each other, but they love Adolin

If I am honest I don’t know how to read these comments. Sometimes interesting speculation and then just stunning assertions with no connection to the published books. My nephew with Autism is unnerving sometimes. It can be awkward to talk to him when he is perseverating on some subject. Hate him? Of course not. He violates social norms. I can’t even imagine a reason to jump from there to Shallan hates Renarin. And Renarin hates Shallan? I doubt it.

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Gepeto @209:

My initial take on Adolin was that he was a character that was largely untroubled. A dilettante playboy who has a pretty easy go of life, very nice, very earnest but a character without any deep conflict. The kind of conflict necessary to create a break in his spirit web for a nahel bond (or a different bont) to be formed.

But in rereading WoR, there are very subtle hints at an internal rage that he keeps suppressed. His hatred and mistrust of Sadeas is pervasive throughout, and the most telling moment showing that perhaps this affable good natured, moral and earnest character is harboring a deep seated flaw is in his first battle for the shard blade, where he brutally takes out the shardbearer. This is in an Adolin POV chapter, Renarin ascribes his tactics to genius thinking that he did it to make the other shardbearer’s think that it was a lucky win, but Adolin acknowledges obliquely that it was just brutality and that he’s not sure why he did it that way.

The scene where he dispatches Sadeas at the end of WoR is similar, like there is a rage inside of him that he can’t control. The juxtaposition of a seemingly perfect person with a major supressed flaw like this, I think, hints at the fact that Adolin is not a tertiary character. The investigation of Sadeas’ murder, with Iali and Amaram on his track, does I think, hint at the fact that he will be found out, and there are multiple different ways that this could play out. He could become isolated, despondent and experience a steep moral decline as Dalinar is forced to divide his loyalties, one to his son the other to a united Alethkar (i think this branching path might end with him bonding a voidspren, possible becoming Odium’s champion). He could also be forced to deal with the rage that he has long supressed, admitting the truth to himself about how this rage that he has internalized and supressed is a part of him, and be on the path towards becoming a knight radiant (this path I think consequently would draw him closer to Shallan, and would force Dalinar to make the morally right decision to see the death of Sadeas as a consequence of Sadeas’ actions, and let the chips fall where they may in regards to the unity of Alethkar).

Urithuru is a giant powder keg right now, and there are multiple lines of powder leading to the keg. Any spark can make this go off, but I think that whichever spark it is Adolin’s character arc will be important.

 

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7 years ago

@210: Well, perhaps hate was a strong word, but we could settle on “do not appear to like each other much for reasons which are personal to both character”.

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Tommy
7 years ago

I have always read the Adolin story with the idea that he wasn’t part of the original WoK. That this late arriving character just would not be silenced once Brandon created him and has wormed his way into every thread of the story is my favorite part about him. I could be wrong. I have this memory of a WoB that said he wasn’t part of his original story.

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Tommy
7 years ago

I CAN’T BELIEVE I missed this. I thought the watch she made for him was a diversion. Not any more.

That… and a long march alone, accompanied only by hatred and the Thrill. He remembered those emotions vividly. He’d brought vengeance to those who had taken his wife from him.

Navani settled down on the seat beside Dalinar, resting her head on his shoulder. “Would that I could create a fabrial,” she whispered, “to take away this kind of pain.”

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7 years ago

hoiditthroughthegrapevine @@@@@ 211 and Tommy @@@@@214 – Is Adolin Darth Vader?

Great analysis hoiditthroughthegrapevine! Thanks. I did not see that at all.

Tommy – I missed that too. Thank you.

Anyway, if Adolin becomes the Darth Vader of the Stormlight Archive, I can see the next set of 5 books to be the fight to get him back from the dark side of stormlight. :-)

Kidding aside, both what Hoid and Tommy said open up a lot of things for Adolin’s character arc

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7 years ago

chazzers@201: Spren existed before there were humans on Roshar. As mentioned in the comments on this very page, that’s why early spren had four sexes: because Rosharian life (like Listeners) has four.

trimerion@202: Brandon Sanderson is on record as saying that Nightblood actually is a very odd Shardblade. Presumably this is because his Nalthis Breaths (the source of his Investiture) come from a Shard of Adonalsium. We also know that Vasher/Zahel/Warbreaker/Peacegiver and his lover consciously made him in imitation of Rosharian Shardblades.

 

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7 years ago

@216 Carl,  I think it was said that there are 4 genders, not sexes. A slight but important difference :) 

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7 years ago

@211: My thoughts are their were hints of Adolin’s outside persona being a canvas he uses to hide his more sensitive side. His incentive to always appear strong, reliable, sturdy are very strong which is something OB highlighted quite well so far. We saw glimpses of it in WoK/WoR too, when he speaks of how he refuses to allow his family to see his doubts, how he always try to appear confident even if he doesn’t feel this way. Not all readers have read the character this way though.

I however do not think what he hides is an uncontrollable rage. I believe what he hides is a very sensitive side which causes him to react very strongly to outside stimulus and they can be both positive (his reaction to Dalinar’s wedding, his passionate talk of Blades) and negative (his anger towards Sadeas). Being Adolin, he can’t control those emotive impulses very well (which is why Sadeas thought he could goat and manipulate Adolin), but he will hide how events hurt him behind his affable eager to help perfect son personality. That’s what he has been repressing, IMHO, pain, weaknesses, stress. In shorts, he reacts strongly when it is about others, but when it is about him, he pretends it doesn’t bother him, he pretends it never happened.

Based on my reading of WoR, I always thought Adolin’s main source of conflict was his relationship with his father, mostly because Dalinar pushes a lot of expectations on him without minding how they are received. OB had Adolin open-up and state he feels the strain Dalinar inadvertently put on him. There is a lot to be said on how their respective personalities are making them react in a given way which ultimately has made Adolin unable to open-up and to speak up on what ails him. It has pushed him down the path he is currently following which is the one where he keeps his secret and he cannot share it. He has no one he can confide in when it really matter. Not Dalinar, not Renarin and Shallan hasn’t pick up the perch he leaned towards her.

Adolin’s status within the story however is “tertiary character” and will likely remain it (or less) until the end of the series (or his death).

In this optic, I had a preference towards the copycat murders being an attack launched by Ialai as I felt it would have given the character “a moment” whereas the alternative may not provide the same opportunity. Or maybe it will, maybe it will be even better: this is the downside of the serialized read. It affects how we read the story. If I had the book, I would have likely read more chapters to see what will happen. I wouldn’t be wasting time thinking on where the narrative is going: I’d just be reading it. On the flip side, it is fun to see how our thoughts are changing from one week to the next. Mine have been a roller-coaster.

: He always was a character within the story, but he originally had a smaller role. Now he has a bigger role, but without knowing this in advance, readers can easily mistake Adolin as a main protagonist, especially after reading WoR.

However knowing what to expect and wishing to be wrong can create contradicting feelings within the same person.

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Tommy
7 years ago

I guess I was wrong about Adolin.  From Annotation The Way of Kings Chapter 2, ” Dalinar has been Dalinar from day one. Adolin, Jasnah, Renarin, and Taln all solidified into themselves while I was writing Prime.” Not sure where I got that from. Mea culpa

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7 years ago

I haven’t read the comments yet, but will soon-hopefully. Just a few quick thoughts. 

I don’t know whether to hope that Mraize’s claim about Ialai not being a member of the Ghostbloods is true or not. On the one hand, I was initially relieved that they hadn’t joined forces as I’d been afraid of in the last set of chapters- because,  she’s terrifying, and having her be the real leader of the Ghostbloods is not a pretty picture. But on the other hand, if she’s not really working with them, it leaves two distinct groups of sketchy people in Urithiru rather than one-and it also means that if Mraize is freaked out by Ialai, she’s probably more dangerous than we’ve given her credit for. I

It’s convenient that Mraize gave Shallan a job she’s already kind of working on. I wonder how many of those he’ll give her before she becomes “comfortable” with her position in the Ghostbloods and he can give her a task she would have initially declined. But I’m interested to see what Shallan discovers about Urithiru- if even Mraize can tell that something’s off with it, it probably has more wrong with it than Shallan just not being able to see it all.

My roommates and I were talking about it a while back, during Shallan’s escapades at the bars, and I threw out the theory (among others) that the murders were happening due to an Unmade (I’m sure I’m not the first to have that theory, but I haven’t yet read the comments on that week). I think I remember hearing once that the Unmade’s powers were likely limited by distance, and it could be that this Unmade resides in Urithiru- and once the oathgates are opened, who knows where it will go?

I love that Kaladin is expanding his role as a protector to protecting even those distinctly different from him. Also, because I didn’t get the chance to comment on a few of the previous weeks, I’ll take this opportunity to say that I loved the part with the young parshgirl, who couldn’t understand why they were hated, because she hadn’t done anything. I honestly wanted to reach in and give her a hug, because that was so sad. Back to this week’s Kaladin chapter, the yellow spren thing is becoming more and more interesting, and a wee bit unnerving too.

Oh my word, Taravangian. It’s different seeing him in one of these states for a change. It was interesting to realize, while he was asking about where they would strike, that when he first made the decision to come, he could very well have been doing it as a sincere ally, thinking Dalinar was taking the path of the conqueror. But, now that idea has been debunked by Dalinar, and things aren’t going to go well. Also, the Releasers/ Dustbringers have always struck me as being really powerful, so the fact that the only one we know of (or that claims to exist anyway) is under Taravangian’s control was a punch to the gut– if there is anyone who doesn’t need a scary, deathbringing (dustbringing) radiant on his side, it’s Taravangian. Honestly, the moment it was mentioned that she was a Dustbringer, I looked at my screen and asked, “Are you kidding me???”

It looks like everyone who speculated that Dalinar’s request was to forget the pain were correct! I remember seeing theories before that maybe surgebinding helped undo the effects, which I think is an interesting theory- but it doesn’t seem like what the Stormfather said would support it. A thought that came to me while reading was that, he specifically asked for the pain to be taken away. But pain changes over time. Maybe right then, he needed to lose the memories in order to forget the pain, but with time he’s become a man who can deal with grief better, and has a better support group around him- and so the memories came back, but the pain was still kept at bay? So the boon never really disappeared? But that would raise the question of what the curse really was if not the forgetting….and there’s nothing to suggest that the Nightwatcher works in the way I just mentioned. Just a thought.

Anywho- thanks again to Tor and to Brandon for these! Reading these chapters are definitely a highlight of my weeks. (Also, wow. I wrote a lot more than I was expecting to there. I guess I had more thoughts than I thought I did. Sorry.)

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7 years ago

Hoidvine @175 – It’s a fairly good list, but you mix a lot of supposition in with the known info.

1) The 17th Shard (currently non-interventionist, lead by Frost the dragon, currently searching for Hoid)

We don’t know that Frost is the leader at all; just that he/she is involved and/or friendly with them.

2) The IRE, ancient beings that can live physically in the Cognitive Realm that appear to be from Taldain Darkside, who try to capture the Power of Preservation, and who fear that people from Threnody (where the shard Ambition was from) will try to intercede/and or claim the shards power for themselves.

As others noted, the IRE are from Elantris. Also, while Ambition fought with Odium in the Threnodite system, we don’t know that it ever inhabited the planet; it’s final splintering took place elsewhere.

3) The Silverlight scholars. Seen on Sixth of Dusk, Kriss was once part of there number, but now operates independently.

Kriss has always operated independently. Also, “the Silverlight scholars” are not a group with Cosmere-wide plans in the same sense as the other groups. Silverlight is essentially home to a university where lots of things are studied; there’s no evidence so far that they have a Cosmere agenda other than learning. Also, what does Sixth of the Dusk have to do with it?

5) Speculative – Mraize’s group. … Could he perhaps represent the interests of a faction that somehow survived the devestation of the Splintering of Ambition on Threnody. …

Except that, as noted above, the Splintering of Ambition didn’t take place on Threnody. Doesn’t affect the theory, but this particular statement is incorrect.

@many re: Dalinar checking the paperwork – Remember that “checking paperwork” is literally paper work, most likely without triplicate forms. There may be multiple copies made, but we don’t know – and there’s no reason to assume that Dalinar would have access to records belonging to Sadeas. I don’t think this complaint is all that reasonable.

Alatar @187 “Odium is not trapped, he currently inhabits Braize, another planet in the Roshar system, but he could leave at will.”

It’s been made clear that Odium is trapped within the Rosharan system. How much he is free to travel between the planets, we don’t yet know.

Gepeto @193 – “Evi and Toh ran away from Rira after stealing a Shardplate in hope to use it as a bargaining chip to secure a new position for themselves elsewhere, a strong secure position to dissuade reprisal.”

The definition of “stealing” might be very much a matter of perspective. If something has belonged to one family for a long time, but the government wants to claim it and give it to someone else, it would be pretty reasonable for the owning family to take that object and find someone that would protect them from their government, and most people would not consider that “stealing.” And it’s not like they just gave it to Alethkar – it would belong to Evi’s son, continuing in their family.

Tommy @210 – Well said.

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7 years ago

Gepeto @209.  I disagree that Kaladin’s anger toward Amaram will result in a further expanded arc.  Amaram has been exposed and Kaladin vindicated.  After Kaladin punched Roshone, he realized that he has to put the past in the past.  I think he will take the same attitude towards Amaram.  Kaladin will never be friends with Amaram, or even forgive Amaram for his actions toward Kaladin.  But I think that Kaladin will not be consumed with hate towards Amaram as he was in WoR.

Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren

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7 years ago

Do we know for an absolute certainty that the light eyes Kalidin killed to get the shard blade Was Heleran? I thought he had a helmet on?

 

I could see Heleran turning up again if that’s the case

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Tommy
7 years ago

Can anyone back me up here? I distinctly remember Kaladin briefly getting a Shadesmar double vision. Does anyone else remember that? It seems to me the the author of the in world Oathbringer doesn’t have to be capable of soulcasting just because he or she has seen Shadesmar.

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7 years ago

     I think that Dalinar is getting his memory back because ethe old Dalinar is dead. He is not the same man he was when he went to the night watcher. 

      And I don’t think that Dalinar is the one writing Oathbringer. He doesn’t seem like that would be his style. Taravangian, though? He might think that others are smarter that he is-at least on some days- and he was the one collecting the information in the beginning of the chapters in WoK and WoB 

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7 years ago

Re: @18 Lady Trent is much like Shallan since she draws everything.  Could she be an author hopper?

I agree with the question of why Ialai would even put up with a guard like Maraise?  It feels wrong and implies he is lying about the relationship or has some illusion or control over her we don’t know yet.

I do hope Adolin isn’t killed.  His death would certainly have a large impact on all the major characters even though he’s not one himself. 

 

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7 years ago

Yet again, Shallan mentions the strata of rock as an “obvious” sign of where to go, but this time notes that the two shades are near enough to make one able to pretend they are a single shade.

So… does she have Perfect Color Recognition, as though she reached the Third Heightening in Warbreaker terms? And by extension, does this mean that the other Knights Radiant did as well, so they could get around in their own city? Do any of the other new Radiants have such abilities? If not, why is Shallan, and by extension, the former Knights Radiant, different? Might is simply be how long she has been bonded?

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7 years ago

@214: I think you are right – its so obvious in hindsight and was hiding in plain sight so we didn’t even see it.

Dalinar has only started getting his memories back since he put the watch/pain-relieving fabrial on his wrist. It is interfering with his boon/curse somehow.

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7 years ago

Shallan notices the strata because of her interest in art and natural history. She is good at remembering visual details. It seems to be the extra ability of her order of knights. Other orders have different special abilities, like Kaladin’s powerful squires.

It doesn’t make sense that Dalinar looks at paperwork, he can’t read. Navani might do it, but as a man Dalinar hasn’t learned to think of that kind of thing. It is only an obvious thing to do for us because we grew up in a very literate society. In Azir it might be different, but Alethi men are soldiers, not bureaucrats.

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7 years ago

I wonder if there’s any chance the italics could be Elhokar or even Adolin? At this point, I don’t know when Adolin would be thinking he might be dead and having a suspended view of Shadesmar. Adolin definitely could be someone who feels like he needs to explain himself, and there’s a line about all the women who read this will think… (Adolin was known to be familiar with many ladies)
But Elhokar has had “shadows” to deal with for a long time and seems to have experienced a shift in perspective etc. I can totally hear him saying that something he went through was worse than death. ha! He has had moments of “I’m not smart. I’m not good at ____”

The mystery italics are super intriguing as I read Sanderson books.

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7 years ago

Tommy @224 – Yes, Kaladin has seen Shadesmar. 

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7 years ago

@219: Adolin in WoK Prime was named Aredor and reads like a bland version of our Adolin. So while Brandon used the same canvas for both characters, it is safe to say the final version has much more depth and is a better fleshed out character. Also, I think Aredor dies at some point.

@221: I have been thinking on why the Plate is considered stolen. My initial thoughts were “family feud”: the Plate shouldn’t technically belong to Evi and Toh, but they felt it ought to, so they stole it. Or it maybe the was a rival family which defeated Evi and Toh’s family, forcing them, as the last heirs, to run away with their family most important possession. Or they just ran away with a family heirloom because well, huh I don’t really know. Or it may be something else entirely. The family trying to recover it might be very high ranked if they got the queen to interface in their favor.

Either way, I am currently suspecting Adolin does have a valid claim onto the Plate being Evi’s son. I have also wondered if he is not set to inherit something bigger down there in Rira. Or more sinister.

@222: I do not know how Amaram will tie back to Kaladin: I never said anything about “anger”, but we cannot ignore these two characters have an unfinished story. As thus, I definitely expect this story arc to flip over and become more relevant to Kaladin than to Adolin. The book has been constructed this way so far, that or Brandon will throw us a curve ball and Adolin will matter more into this story arc than Kaladin.

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7 years ago

Tommy @@@@@ 224 I found the passage of Kaladin seeing into Shadesmar. It’s in WOR Chapter 41 when he first figures out how gravitation works:

The voice faded. For a moment, Kaladin thought he saw shadows of a world that was not, shadows of another place. And in that place, a distant sky with a sun enclosed, almost as if by a corridor of clouds. There. He made the direction of the wall become down.

Are you suggesting that Kal could be the Oathbringer author? I don’t think he would be so rambly, there hasn’t been a single bridgeman grunt. :-)

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7 years ago

@@@@@ 206 Isilel
Good point that Mraize could’ve simply lied about Ialai not working with the Ghostbloods, I totally figured that he was telling the truth.. which wasn’t a very smart assumption of me.

@@@@@ 221 Wetlandernw
I think it might’ve been me who talked about Dalinar’s investigation into Amaram and the shardblade, and I believe the paperwork conversation followed from that.

I was personally mostly thinking about some hard to hide inconsistencies in the dates from between Amaram actually got the shardblade, and when he said he did. Dalinar did say he talked to a lot of people, even darkeyes, but for some reason none of the people he talked to mentioned that Kaladin and his squad disappeared way before Amaram even got a shardblade.
That might be because Dalinar only asked the people around Amaram, it might be that those particular soldiers were left behind in Alethkar, or they’re all super loyal to Amaram, and lied.

Then again, the inconsistencies I mentioned might be very hard to see unless you’re aware (like the readers and Amaram) of the fact that they exist. And it is possible  that the only ‘paperwork’ about Kaladin’s squad’s deaths was in the form of letters to their family, and maybe a number in some scribe’s annotations, so you’re probably right about that.

He should however, own Kaladin’s (former) slave writ, with the date and reason for enslavement on it, which he could’ve used as a starting point. But it would’ve been hard to look into this without making it too obvious what he was doing, and he was busy with other important (world-ending) things. So it’s logical that the story happened the way it did. And Amaram did get caught in the end, so I can’t complain too much :) (unless it turns out no one will believe Dalinar and Kaladin, and the rest of Alethkar still worships Amaram, ugh).

@@@@@223 stemma5199
I think WoR has mostly filled the series’ quota for ‘dead’ characters being resurrected. :)

I believe Brandon Sanderson has said he realized he added too many fake deaths into the story, so he probably won’t do it again.
Then again, he might bring Helaran back in such a masterful and interesting way that no one will mind. :)

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Tommy
7 years ago

@233 Artemis. No that isn’t what I was driving at. I had just seen comments that because the author mentions seeing into Shadesmar this supported Jasnah being the author. I was trying to point out that others had seen into it. I think that Kaladin was a firm example of someone seeing in without ever traveling there or even having a defined spren bond explaining why he was able to see there.

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7 years ago

#204  nerium:  This information is from Vasher.   It took a thousand breaths to awaken Nightblood and make it sentience.  As you said, it was given one command, “Destroy Evil.”  But, it has no control or governor, other than arguing with Vasher.  In Edgedancer,  the Assassin in White has been revived by Skybreaker Nate to serve as a trainee. Because he died, all of his bonds were broken.  He no longer has his oathstone nor the honor blade that he was given.  Instead the Skybreaker has given him Nightblood, which talks to him in his head. As Lift has been trailing the Skybreaker that she calls Darkness, she encounters the Assassin in White.  He recognizes that she is a Radiant in the making and begins to draw Nightblood.  He is not the POV, so we don’t hear the sword ourselves, but are told by the Assassin that the sword likes the little radiant.   In short, if the sword likes you, it likely will not slay you. 

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7 years ago

#221  Wetlandernw:  As to Toh and Evi “stealing” the shard plate, I had the impression that the set had been in the family a while, but the siblings felt the need to run away from their homeland.  They no longer felt safe there.  I had the impression that the main issue is that it was brought to a completely different country in violation of their laws.  Apparently Alethkar has a similar law/regulation, which iswhy Kaladin warned Moash, not to take his set out of the country.

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7 years ago

About Evi and Toh…

I am currently looking at Roshar’s map. In between Rira and Alethkar, there is Babatharnam, Azir, Purelake, Yulai, Tu Bayla, Jah Keved not to forget the Southern countries which all are closer to Rira than Alethkar. In fact, Alethkar is about the farthest country to escape to when you are Riran.

The stolen Shardplate would have bought wealth and protection into about any country for the Riran siblings and yet they crossed the entirety of the known world to reach the most intimidating, warring nation within Roshar. Once there, they sought the protection of the most blood-thirsty conquerors inhabiting the country. Gavilar thinks their arrival means the foreign world is starting to see him as a legit sovereign when in truth it might have been his fearsome reputation which attracted them.

What possessed those two kids to run away onto the other side of the continent to pledge their stolen Shardplate to the service of the most disputable and terrible warriors known to their world? What possessed them to marry young, quiet, shy and delicate Evi to the Blackthorn, the world most renown fearsome and barbarous man?

The scope of their actions, their desperation, their unlikely alliance, Evi’s sacrifice, all of this makes me think whatever or whomever they were running away from must have been absolutely terrible

And now maybe he/she/it finally sees an opportunity to settle an old score.

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7 years ago

#238  Gepeto:  Random thoughts, with absolutely no canon backup.  Folks have said that the siblings act like they are from a very high noble family.  Maybe they are offshoots of the royal line.  Maybe that is why the queen is taking it so very personal.  The setup between the desolutions, was that the ancestors of the Alethi were said to be the warriors, the ones, who kept the peace.

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StormItAllAgain
7 years ago

@113 one more option for the memories coming back: Nightwatcher/Cultivation is under direct assault by Odium and is losing some power.

@122 the new “radiant” opened the oathgate, so the only options are honor blade or bonded to a spren, I would say the second option may eliminate Liss.

@129 I think the author is Dalinar. It sounds like one of his orations, and the mention of childhood experiences reminded me of Dalinars dream as a child, some other diety besides the almighty

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Wetlandernw @@@@@ 221 – Thanks for the clarification, truly appreciated. Definitely don’t want to be spreading bad information, but I just can’t keep from speculating. These are such amazing books, and the foundational story is so great and is so well thought out that it’s fun to try and piece together the small fragments mentioned as casual world building asides into a mosiac of something more.

Thinking more deeply on some previous speculation, I am beginning to revise my view of cultivation and the voidspren in general. I speculated before that the listeners and other native great shells of Roshar could be controlled by spren from both Cultivation and Odium, but I think that I made a mistake in differentiating these as agents of the good and the bad. I now think that when a spren seizes control of another being to use it as vehicle for it’s own ends, that is what makes it a Voidbringer. The void here referring to the lack of self-identity for the being so invested. I think that the power of cultivation had to be mixed with Honor, by the establishment of Boundaries to contain the primal force, and further it required a volitional commitment on the part of the one so invested, in order for the surges of Cultivation to be used for good. Using Mraize’s words “Morality is an axis that doesn’t concern…” cultivation, she is the shard that is the source of invested Forces, impersonal, non-teleological, encompassing both destruction and creation. The Nightwatcher as a projection of cultivation bothered me for a long time, but I think that was just a mistake on my part of wanting to ascribe some heroic intent to her Investiture. When you’re dying of thirst in the desert the pitiless sun doesn’t care that you saved 5 drowning orphans 5 years ago. It just keeps on beating down until you’re as dead as toast. The desolations in this light are perhaps even more frightening, the Pitiless forces of Nature awakened, let loose upon the land (think of the Titans getting out of Tartarus) and all the Divine wrath of god, stripped of the virtues that tempered, directed and gave it purpose, similarly loosed upon the world.

I am very curious now to see what happens when Captain Kaladin and the Parshendi get to their Destination…

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7 years ago

I think that Dalinar killed his wife. On accident, but still.

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7 years ago

@224 Tommy

Yes Kaladin does have a brief vision of Shadesmar when he first starts learning the gravity lashing in the chasms, my guess is that all the KR can “see” into shadesmar, but only the soulcasters and travellers can interact there directly

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nerium
7 years ago

@236 While this is true, the reason Nightblood liked Lift was because she felt nauseated after being exposed to its unsheathed essence. That doesn’t seem like a foolproof method to determine evil, especially considering the sword’s actions in the past. Or Szeth’s, for that matter. Or Nale’s.

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Adam Chestnut
7 years ago

I’ve made a cursory search and found nothing, but I’m not the most resourceful.  So, I thought I’d ask here….Do we have verification that Jasnah is the cover art character?  I’ve seen it mentioned here, but it seems just a little incongruous to me, since it appears she’s floating.  Jasnah ain’t got no Gravitation, right?  That would be Skybreakers and Windrunners, I thought.

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7 years ago

Adam @245 – Yes, it is Jasnah. The appearance of floating is sheer artistic license, but I promise you’ll recognize the scene when it happens, without question.

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Mahedi
7 years ago

Hmm, about the “void” spren.  How is she able to manifest intelligence in the physical realm?  She must be bonded, and if so…then to whom?  There must be a lot of these lone ranger types roaming all over roshar leading various groups of awoken parshendi to….the gathering (where ever that is).  The question is, are these spren bonded to the parshendi, or to other humans? I understood that the parshendis used the voidspren to change to stormform, but they are not really bonded to them, are they?  If they are, then it will explain the proliferation of voidsprens in roshar with manifested intelligence.  But if, on the other hand, they are bonded to humans, it begs the question, how many humans gave themselves to the void?

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7 years ago

Once again, life is intruding (I’m taking a class and we have a big project and a midterm this week).  I got a chance to read the post on my phone, although I haven’t tackled the comments yet (aside from a few of the first ones).

Sooo – author is clearly not Jasnah, as I believe she would consider herself a philosopher, not would she assume somebody is smarter than she is!  I guess for now I’m going with my pet theory that the person writing it had some connection to making the parshmen what they are.

Ch 22:  I didn’t even think of the Sixth of the Dusk birds, but my first thought was actually a kind of silly association, which is a ridiculous scene in Sword of Truth about incarnate evil in the form of a chicken.

I actually thought a future meeting with Mraize and Shallan would be a little more menacing.  But he seems to somewhat tacitly approve of Shallan’s behavior with the symbol earlier, and also not particularly care that she had connections to Jasnah.  To him it’s all certainly nothing personal!  But have they even revealed what their goal actually is?  And how did Jasnah oppose it?

So something clearly IS going on with Urithiru…which may or may not be related to the murders.

I am not sure I am interpreting all the guarded speech correctly, but was Ialai accusing Adolin? And does Shallan know (and seem to also think he did it?).

Can’t help but feel that Mraize’s promise of information about Heleran and Amaram’s impending involvement are going to end up blowing up as Shallan learns more about what actually happened (especially Kaladin’s role in it).

Ch: 23 – definitely wondering about the other spren. And what does she want them to fight for?

Ch. 24 – Seeing T is always interesting.  Should we recognize Malata or is she really just a new character.

It’s interesting to see Dalinar confront the perceptions others have of Alethkar and how he hopes to counter that. That said, wasn’t one of T’s notes that if Dalniar tries to be a peacemaker he should be destroyed immediately? But then again, his thoughts at the end of the chapter seem to imply he may need to go the ‘warlord’ path, so maybe thats what T was actually referring to.

Well, Stormfather seems to have at least dismissed one theory.  As somebody who hates being asked the same question more than once, his response amused me :)

I am also curious about the Shin’s ‘congratulations’ – didn’t they exile Szeth becuase they thought he was wrong about it? But man, I can’t keep track of all the different nations and which ones we’ve seen/learned about.

Tezim isn’t subtle, at least – initially I was thinking he might be Taln (the one left behind) but then I remebered we already saw him and he doesn’t seem to be in any condition to be god-king. So maybe Jezrien? Was he the leader?  Or Ishar?

I wonder what this means: “his memories of Evi carrying with them a fresh and dangerous perspective.”

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7 years ago

JUST HURRY UP AND RELEASE THE BOOK ALREADY

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7 years ago

Hm, the new revelation about Vedeledev being on the Endpapers really strengthens the notion that Adolin will become an Edgedancer in this book and that Lift is one of the tertiary/novella PoVs. Though, I guess, with Jasnah featured on the cover, having Battar’s picture  as well may have been redundant? Still, Bondsmiths, Lightweavers and Windrunners are so prominent in the narrative, that IMHO the fourth depicted order has to keep up, somewhat.

Also, seeing Ishar like that makes me go back to the idea that he might be Tezim, after all. Though why Nale would listen to somebody so obviously off their rocker as the author of that bombastic and unconvincing message is anybody’s guess. Yes, Nale is also mad, but in a very detached and analytical way, so you’d think that he could only  be swayed/manipulated by (twisted) logic, rather than crazy outbursts.

Melbu Frahma @208:

I think that the voidspren have planned a mass transformation of parshmen into carefully selected “higher forms” with pre-determined ratios. To that end great numbers of respective spren need to be captured in gems, like Venli did with the storm-spren, and parshmen have to be taught to attune specific Rythms. They don’t want somebody transforming accidentally and maybe spooking the rest and causing them to re-think their priorities. Not to mention, that while the listeners are sturdier than humans, they still can be hurt during the storms when bigger objects are occasionally flying around. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Venli and her team again at the end Kaladin’s journey – if he doesn’t have to bail before that. I am certain that she is alive and has been very busy stockpiling odium-spren for this very purpose in the mean time.

Mahedi @247:

There is no reason to think that higher Odium-spren have to bond to be sapient. In fact, in one of Dalinar’s flashbacks in WoK, IIRC, a radiant and some soldiers are hunting a spren-spy that is explicitely unbonded. Also, Nale told us in “Edgedancer” that voidspren could hide and remain on Roschar between Desolations. That’s what the yellow spren are, IMHO. They have been hiding for all these millenia, growing in sophistication and badly confusing/subverting the Shin Stone Shamans in the process.

Lisamarie @248:

I think that Shin congratulations have to do with the Alethi finally finding a  place where it isn’t sacrilegous for them to walk on stone. They, like the rest of the world, probably still don’t believe Dalinar about anything else.

Gepeto @209:

There is no reason to think that Amaram can’t multi-task and be an antagonist for more than one central character. Sadeas managed, after all ;). Anyway, Amaram is far more than just an obstacle – he is also potentially our window into an older Gavilar, “Sons of Honor” secret society and a link to “Taln”. Also, he will certainly jump into Dalinar’s conflict with the Ardentia. _And_ he is investigating Sadeas’s murder. All issues that the Kholins and Shallan will have to deal with, but which are completely out of Kaladin’s foreseeble trajectory.

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7 years ago

@250: I am pretty sure Brandon said Lift was an interlude character within OB. Her chapter has something to do about a riot. Supposedly, it is very fun. Brandon did explicitly said anyone who wasn’t Adolin, Szeth, Eshonai, Jasnah or Navani wasn’t allowed more than one or two viewpoints. This includes Lift, thus I definitely do not think she is one of the tertiary character.

Seeing Vedel into the inside cover can mean many things or not. After all, we’ve just had the Edgedancer novel which is happening in parallel to OB. After this novel, we can say Edgedancers are one our most acquainted with orders, so it may be just that.

As for Adolin, I am holding my breath on this one. Brandon has said many comments which led some readers to believe he may be going down this route, but it may also be too enthusiastic readers interpreting his words as they prefer. For instances, he said Adolin has the most unpredictable and surprising development of all characters, when compared to the original outlay of the book. He said there was more of the character which should please the Adolin’s fans (we’ve interpreted this one as meaning he likely does not die nor turn evil). He said anything with respect to his Blade was RAFO and he wished for this to play out naturally. This may be the biggest clue as a lot of people have interpret it as him going with the Blade revival story arc. Or readers just want the Blade revival story arc and will automatically look for clues indicating the author’s intentions.

Thus, seeing Vedel inside the book is a positive sign, but she may be there for many reasons which aren’t related to Adolin. I personally would LOVE for this arc to happen, even if I don’t think it is an arc which will conclude itself in OB. If Adolin revives his Blade, I expect it will happen over more than one book, though the one year gap in between book 3 and 4 sort of messed up the cards a little.

My thoughts also are Adolin would make a very interesting Edgedancer, evolving in parallel to Lift. I also believe the character progression for him to make it to the oaths would be more interesting than Lift’s, but YMMV.

As for Amaram: But he has the tiny problem of Dalinar having formally accused him of stealing s Shardblade, murdering a squad of soldiers and turning one into a slave. He might want to clean this up first and for this Kaladin may be his prime suspect. Those who are away are always guilty.

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7 years ago

 haven’t read all the comments, so I may be repeating someone.

I thought that it was pretty clear that Dalinar’s memory is returning due to the watch/healing fabrial that Navani has given him.

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7 years ago

 Gepeto @251:

If that’s the case, then 1 or 2 Lift viewpoints certainly shouldn’t be sufficient to merit a Vedel endpaper.  Of course, she may team up with Szeth, or some other PoVs, and then we’d see more of her. But still, I’d expect some significant Edgedancer action to justify having their patron featured so prominently, instead of Battar or Nale. Personally, I don’t see why the stand-alone “Edgdancer” novella, which is already out, would have any bearing on the art in “Oathbringer”.

Does this mean that one of the novelettes is going to be multi-PoV, though? I mean, there are 4 tertiary character PoVs and 2 novelettes in the last Oathbringer chart versus 5 of “Adolin, Szeth, Eshonai, Jasnah or Navani”.

Concerning Amaram – his tiny problem has been very elegantly circumvented, for now, by his becoming Ialai’s investigator. Dalinar moving against him in any way would be tantamount to public obstruction of investigation into Sadeas’s murder – i.e. admission of guilt. Dalinar can’t afford that.

I also have a somewhat different view of Amaram than the majority here – he is not Sadeas. IMHO, he’ll honestly try to find the culprit. And he is uniquely placed to do so, given his analytical and methodical nature and first-hand experience with obfuscating crimes ;). Also, he is going to be unhappy with Dalinar’s heresy, but he knows for certain that at least some of the visions are true, since Gavilar had them as well. So, unlike the ardentia, Amaram will see Dalinar as a real prophet of the Almighty, who is being led astray, and he will try his utmost to get Gavilar’s brother  back on track – likely sharing insights into whatever the late king was up to in the years leading to his murder and outing Taravangian/Adrotagia as G’s confidants in the process.

Kaladin is just a complete side-issue in all of this, not to mention that IIRC he left Urithiru at least a full day before Sadeas’s guards lost their highprince in the tunnels.

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7 years ago

@@@@@ 253 Isilel

Your comment about Amaram seeing Dalinar as a prophet makes me very curious to see what Amaram’s reaction to Kaladin is. Now he knows Kaladin’s a Knight Radiant, and pretty much holy, if I understand his particular type of religious fervour.

The heralds, and people being singled out by them with visions and special powers seemed to feature strongly in his beliefs, as a signal that the Desolation has started and the Heralds will return. Kaladin has been ‘chosen’ for this, so how would Amaram relate his opinion in WoR (He wished he’d killed Kaladin), with Kaladin’s status as a sort of religious idol now.

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7 years ago

Gepeto @251 said: “though the one year gap in between book 3 and 4 sort of messed up the cards a little.”  Is there a WoB where he said that the timeline will advance 1 year from events at the end of OB and the start of book 4?  If so, do you have a site to that statement?  If that turns out to be the case, the start of book 4 could start off with a lot more KRs than the end of OB.  One year is a lot of time for spren to start bonding with perspective KRs.

Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren

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7 years ago

 Huh… I edited my post and it disappeared…???

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7 years ago

Now this is annoying… I don’t feel like typing it back, but here’s the answer for @255 because of course there is a WoB. 

QUESTION:

3)You said, there will be a timeskip between two parts of Stormlight.But will we have more timeskips between five books of each part?For example, between book 3 and book 4, or 4 and 5.Or between 6 and 7?I ask this, because in first Mistborn trilogy we had year long timeskips between each book.Wonder, will we have it in SA? 

ANSWER:

3) Plan is for book four to take place a year after book three, so there will be some smaller timeskips too–but the biggest is between five and six.

 

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7 years ago

Breaking my lurking habit to propose that the yellow spren is Syl’s gloomspren-hunting aunt, because why not?

I kind of hope she and the others are Cultivation spren, because it would be so nice if Cultivation saw the parshmen as her lost children and sent someone to guide them home. Probably not though.

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7 years ago

@255: I originally answered your post, but as you can surely see, there were technical issues and it was lost. Basically, I was trying, once again, to speculate onto which character gets how many viewpoints which arguably is a very difficult task to do. This is to be taken with a grain of salt, I have no more information than the one having been made readily available onto public places.

Brandon did say the part 2 novella was involving a new viewpoint character, so not someone we have seen before. Or to be more clear, not someone having had viewpoints before. To this, I will speculate Brandon does not consider the snippets inserted within other characters chapters to be, properly said, viewpoints. This correlates with comments he has made on Reddit and it explains why Adolin’s name appears as one of part 1 viewpoint characters whereas he doesn’t appear onto the official book structure. Brandon also said part 2 had little of the main characters and read more like an interlude: he has been worried about part 2 for months (he publicly stated it on a few occasions) and it has made me worry about part 2 (I mean if the author himself is worried about how a given part will be received, then I do worry, as a reader, as to how I will receive it). Therefore, the part 2 novella is highly unlikely to feature any of the 5 mentioned characters as all has had proper viewpoints chapters.

Popular guesses within the fandom currently are: Moash, Elhokar, Amaram, anyone of the bridgemen. My personal guess: ARGH. Weeks ago, I would have said Moash for sure, then I started thinking Elhokar was a real contender and now I am thinking about Amaram… 

Brandon said the interlude novella usually features a character outside the main narrative. He confirmed it wasn’t either Szeth nor Eshonai in OB. It could be one of the 5, but I can’t see whom. Jasnah wouldn’t fit as the novella character. Popular guesses within the fandom usually are: Taravangian, Amaram, Taln, Nale, Lift, Rysn. My persona guess is Taln because Brandon has used this slot to promote his future protagonists. He did say we would find out about Taln within the near future. This being said, in the optic we are getting Vedel into the inside page, we could argue Taln’s identity will be revealed throughout another character’s viewpoint, say if Amaram is the part 2 novella character, which would open the spot for Lift.

I am partial on Lift being the interlude novella character. I like Lift, but after Edgedancer, I thought we saw enough of her for the time being. Also I am not sure the timeline even allows it as both book are happening in parallel. I could however be totally, completely wrong and Lift has a very strong narrative into OB. This too could happen as Brandon really likes her character and he loves writing her.

My predictions are thus:

Part 2 novella = Moash, second guess Amaram

Tertiary 1 = Adolin

Tertiary 2 = Eshonai, second guess Jasnah

Tertiary 3 = Szeth

Tertiary 4 = Jasnah, second guess Eshonai

Interlude novella = Taln

Navani gets occasional viewpoints as she did before: she never had a tertiary character spot nor do I see the need for it. Lift has one or two interlude chapters, mostly towards the end of the book.

All this to say, Vedel being there may or may not mean anything. It could mean Lift has a very strong narrative despite indications she doesn’t, it could mean Adolin makes the jump towards Edgedancer and actually gets a good narrative despite the indications he doesn’t or it could mean nothing at all and we are tearing our hair out over nothing.

This must be so amusing for beta readers right now…. I can almost hear their machiavellic laughter.

On how Amaram will React: This is a difficult question to answer. As far as we know Amaram wished for the Desolation to happen so the Heralds would come back. How does he view the Radiants is very hard to determine right now, but I somehow doubt he become a Dalinar worshiper within a fortnight neither do I think Ialai would trust him to find whom kill her husband if he did. Ialai already told us she suspects someone from Dalinar’s army, she is putting in her own investigator, surely she isn’t putting someone in awe of the Radiants and seeing them as Gods. Surely she is putting the opposite: someone determine to find the culprit, someone not biased towards not thinking it isn’t a Kholin man who did it.

Oh and I definitely thought Ialai was accusing Adolin of having killed Sadeas. Not directly, she has no proofs, but I do think such were her thoughts.

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nerium
7 years ago

@259 This might be a stretch, but I suspect that in Edgedancer Arclo gives us a hint when mentioning those the Sleepless are watching: the Assassin, the Surgeon, the Liar and the High Prince. Originally, I’d thought “the Assassin” meant Szeth, but then why refer to Kaladin as the Surgeon when he’s more of a former surgeon who’s currently a soldier? From this we could infer that Szeth wasn’t initially an assassin, while the others were initially what they were referred as. Not to mention, all the others are Radiants, and Szeth isn’t one of them, at least not yet. So my guess is that “the Assassin” may refer to Liss, who, as we know, possesses a Shardblade. Perhaps she actually is a Dustbringer, and also an Assassin; and that would have definitely been in Taravangian’s character to bring with his retinue. 

I admit, this might be all wishful thinking on my part, but in defense of my somewhat existent objectivity, it is Renarin’s POV that I most wish to read.

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Eagle
7 years ago

We don’t know all the rules for the curse/boon, do we? 

Could he have made it a conditional Statements “Remove my memories of Evi, Until I can deal with it?” or “Until I marry a new love” 

 

Etc Etc? 

 

 

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7 years ago

Elle@254:

I don’t think that Amaram would see any Radiants as “holy”. They did, after all, fall and betray humankind once, according to Vorin teachings. I am sure that he does recognize usefulness of having them around during a Desolation – but properly supervised by and subordinated to  the Church.

Dalinar would be different in his view not because he is a Bondsmith, but because he is having (some of) the same visions as Gavilar – visions that Amaram believes to be genuinely from the Almighty. He’d see in Dalinar a prophet who is being misled by the enemy and try hard to bring him back into the fold, particularly since the Sons don’t have another source of divine visions.

Gepeto @259:

Amaram held Dalinar in high regard to begin with and deeply regretted the loss of his friendship. Sadeas was certain of his loyalty because he had something on him, and Ialai might think that his recent quarrel with Kholins that led to him depending on her protection, is going to motivate him all the more, but IMHO both Sadeas and Ialai, though definitely smart people, were blinded by their own extreme self-centredness and lust for power/Thrill. And now also thirst for revenge. There is more to Amaram, though. Despite his hypocrisy, he is a believer in things higher than himself, so Ialai is likely to be mistaken in her expectations of him. And despite everything else, there may have been people who would gain from Sadeas’s death among his own lords and those same persons would be a threat to Ialai now, so there are arguments for a thorough investigation – not to mention that in order to hurt Kholins by influencing other Highprinces and other possible allies, the case needs to be quite solid.

Thanks for the interesting info about possible PoVs! I have been trawling the webs for Oathbringer WoBs this weekend and apparently it has been stated (sorry, no links) that in Szeth’s and Adolin’s PoVs will be towards the end of the book and that the former has 6 chapters. Also, that Sigzil will get a PoV. Is it even possible for Amaram or Taln to be second novella PoVs though? Didn’t they both have PoV chapters before? Not that I wouldn’t be glad for it to be either of them – these guys are fascinating.

 

 

 

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7 years ago

Just had a thought I haven’t seen anywhere before. There’s plenty of talk about Adolin’s potential to be a KR, but I just realized that many of the circumstantial arguments for him could also be applied to Navani. I guess it’s my own bias/ expectation toward having young fighting men be Knights that kept me from even asking that question previously, but I think that’s one way Brandon could surprise us.

Her scene drawing the Justice glyph in WoK remains one of my sneaky favorites. 

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7 years ago

 Again???? Twice I have updated a very long post and twice it disappeared… 

BMcGovern
Admin
7 years ago

@264: I’ve flagged your comment as a technical issue, but since this seems to be a recurring problem with your posts, you might want to consider emailing webmaster@tor.com about the problem, if you have a chance. It would be helpful for the site developers to know what browser and platform you’re using, as well as an exact description of what happens when you’ve tried to updated/edit posts. We’ll definitely ask them to look into this!

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Stefano Vitali
7 years ago

Don’t know if someone brought it up, but I found the stonewalking of the yellowspren distinctive, moreso if coupled with his Shin-like appearance. I remember the Shin have some prohibitions/comandments regarding walking on stone/moss. Maybe it is related in some ways

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7 years ago

@265: Thanks, I’ll write to the moderation. The events happened twice while I did the same operation on the same computer using the same browser. I took the first one as a glitch, but since it happened again, I will be careful to avoid editing my posts, for the time being.

@262: Here is a somewhat shorter response than the one I initially wrote which unfortunately fell victim to a technical glitch.

What I meant to say was I doubted Amaram would turn his coat over and start worshiping Dalinar as a prophet of his new religion. It isn’t the argumentation cannot be made, the points you have raised sound valid, it is more a matter of Amaram having a massive chip over the shoulder when it comes to Dalinar. No matter what he does, Amaram does have those accusations pending over his head and whatever his agenda contains, surely he first needs to clear his name. Starting to see Dalinar as a prophet, yearning to join his side and deceiving the Sadeas would not accomplish much in terms of rescuing his reputation. 

Therefore, whatever Amaram may or may not believe over Dalinar having received visions and having refounded the Radiants, he cannot support Dalinar for the mere reason Dalinar is way too honorable to drop the accusation over him. Especially not since they involve Kaladin, Dalinar’s new favorite and most worthy soldier. 

I thus do not think Amaram is toying with Ialai, I think he genuinely wants to find the killer and clear his own name. I do think he is on board with having the killer end up being a Kholin man: his reputation as a honorable man will go a long way to help him sustain his accusations, when he makes them. His best bet remains to discredit Dalinar and to side against him as the champion of a new faction, the faction soon to have the support form the Ardentia and all of those discontent with Dalinar’s heresy and now title.

My perspective is Amaram is highly likely to help Ialai use the murder to attack the Kholins and, by the same way, rescue his reputation. If Dalinar is seen to either lie or favor his own men, then his words on Amaram’s treachery might not hold on the road shall a trial happen.

On the matter of the viewpoints, I would advise caution in reading too much into Brandon’s WoB. In Adolin’s specific case, Brandon never said Adolin had 6 viewpoint chapters. He said Adolin roughly had the same amount of page time as in WoR, he then proceeded to say this ought to be about 6 chapters. The truth is Adolin had 7 chapters in WoR, 18 if we had the snippets he gets within other characters viewpoints. Adolin always had many of those and, in the end, Adolin had as many viewpoints as Dalinar and, since he pops around more often into other character’s viewpoints, a stronger presence. Thus, when Brandon said something along the lines of Adolin getting 6 chapters, he spoke only of complete chapters and he was making an educated guess. He likely didn’t count them nor does he seems to keep strong tabs on those. His comments seemed to have been perspective driven: in his eyes, Adolin gets about the same kind of story arc as in WoR, even if the viewpoints are scattered differently within the book.

All this to say, I will personally count Adolin’s viewpoints once the book is over and see for myself, but I wouldn’t count those comments the author made on Reddit as firm statements.

What we do know is all tertiary characters, besides one, have their story arc condensed into part 4. This has caused some readers to worry as Brandon also stated part 4 was the shortest part into the book. Thus, as far as we can tell, part 4 is supposed to have Dalinar, Kaladin, Shallan, Adolin, Szeth and one other (I am guessing Jasnah) all squeezed in within a small number of words. What does it mean for the tertiary characters story arcs? Well it means their respective arc needs to be VERY short to fit into small part 4 and since at least half the chapters will be likely Dalinar/Kaladin/Shallan, it honestly would leave very little for the others. 

On the matter of Amaram and Taln, since they never had complete chapters, I would think they do not count as viewpoint characters, not in the way Brandon considers them.

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Ebonsignori
7 years ago

Has anyone speculated that the voidspen is not a voidspren, but an honorspren? These Parshmen don’t have red eyes and seem to be in control of themselves. Perhaps when the Stormfather released his counter storm, some honor spren “bonded” groups of Parshmen.

Compare the Listener’s actions to the humans’ since the last desolation. They honorably gave up their freedom to protect the world, where men became greedy and warfarring. I think that the voidspren’s physical similarities to Syl were intentional, and this spren is more than it seems.

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7 years ago

On the discussion of the evil in Urithiru and its abandonment:

The discussion in previous chapters was whether it was abandoned because of the recreanten, because no one could use the oath gates anymore. Or that the evil within Urithiru was the cause. In rereading the Way of Kings (I’m late, I know) I noticed that the day before Shallan was supposed to leave, and soul cast d the goblet, she asked Jasnah about Urithiru. She said that it was abandoned even before the radiants betrayal.

No reason was given, but this might indicate it was the evil lurking there. 

And amazing we see foreshadowing two books before it becomes an issue. 

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7 years ago

@267 Gepeto: if posts are being eaten by the system gremlins, it might be a good idea to save your text in notepad and then just copy/paste it into the comment box once you’ve finished it.  That way if it gets gobbled up you can easily replace it with the backup if you need to.   Just a suggestion, but I find it works for me (I’ve had dodgy connections in the past and nothing is worse than losing something you’ve worked on!)  I don’t always see eye-to-eye with your points of view but I do respect them and I think they contribute a lot of value to the discussions here. 

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7 years ago

Time check!

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7 years ago

double_s@271, too early, six more minutes …

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Omar
7 years ago

What is going on, its been 5 minutes and nothing!

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7 years ago

I haven’t read all the comments yet, but does anyone else think that Odium’s champion might be…. Dalinar? Not willingly, or consciously… Remember [SPOILERS FOR MISTBORN]***In Secret History, Ruin informs Kelsier that he’d been following his plans inadvertantly all along without realizing it.***Maybe Dalinar could be doing a same thing unconscioiusly serving Odium, by warring with these awakened Parshmen as Voidbringers, but who are not really. His vision of the champion with the eyes that he recognizes could be his own. Doing what he thinks is right, but serving Odium anyway.

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Wise One
7 years ago

Dalinar saw a yellow spren when he first saw Evi.  Is the yellow spren the same or type of yellow spren we see now?  What happened to Evi’s brother?

The only thing that Lift and Dalinar have in common is that their boon/curse is going away. The only things that they have in common since their boon/curse is the desolation breaking bonds and becoming a KR. 

Of the two I favor becoming a KN as to why the boon/curse is going away.

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